Exactly. How often have you seen a friend, in real life, make decisions that you knew were headed for a train wreck?
How do you know? The other shoe hasn't dropped yet.
DS9 in 2013
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Exactly. How often have you seen a friend, in real life, make decisions that you knew were headed for a train wreck?
How do you know? The other shoe hasn't dropped yet.
^Yeah, that reaction always bewildered me. It was clear that RBoE was meant as the beginning of a new arc for Sisko. He started out in a dark place in "Emissary," and this was starting out his next journey in a similar way.
Because people in general want instant gratification, I feel. Perhaps I'm wrong with that assesment, but it's also why I feel that a lot of serial tv is not working anymore these days, not as it did years ago. Sure, a lot of people on this forum follow several tv-sries, but remember, we are basicly the odd one's out.
When I ask around, ask people I know, a lot of them don't watch serial tv-shows anymore. It's because they want instant gratification. They want to watch something, and at the end of it, it should be done. They might come back for a second helping, but watching characters and plot develop over a longer period of time is something people don't want anymore. We want our hit, and we want it now.
I'm not saying this is the case with the people who were/are against the Sisko-arc, but I can't help but wonder if that's part of it.
Agreed. People assumed that RboE ended and that was the new status quo, forever to be unchanging. Sisko was forever the family "abandoner". People needed to calm down and be a bit more patient, as has been proven with PoN and hopefully RtD. That being said, I still don't think what Sisko did was out of character. He abandoned everybody during the run of the show! Listen, he believes with all of his being that if he stays his wife and daughter will likely die or be harmed. So by leaving he is saving their life, even though it pains him greatly. How in the hell is that "abandoning" your family?
He's still the family abandoner. He tried to undo it, but that's like undoing a bomb blast. You can try to patch things back together, but they'll never be like they were beforehand.
^They're not supposed to be like they were beforehand. That would be a lazy reset button. The point is that it's now clearer that Sisko was motivated by love and concern for his family and is trying to do right by them, rather than being some selfish "deadbeat." He made a mistake, yes, but he's trying to do better.
So how do you cope with a no-win scenario?
If Sisko ignores the Prophets - and he and his family know only perpetual sorry due to him ignoring that statement - is he any better off?
I think that's another thing people are forgetting about when it comes to the Prophets, they aren't telling you what they think will happen, they are telling what they have actually seen. Now you can act to change that future, but even if you did change it, that does not change the fact that it was something that was going to happen, not something that might have happened.
The Prophet said that Sisko would know "nothing but sorrow" - not Sisko and Kasidy - if he spent his life with her. He tried to avoid a theoretical sorrow - one that I don't see any basis for outside of the prophecy - and instead created the sorrow himself.
(The kidnapping - or anything happening to Rebecca alone - wouldn't fulfill the prophecy, since that would grant sorrow to Kasidy too. Technically, I suppose the sentences could be parsed as a plural "you" applying to both of them, but I don't think that was the intent.)
So yes, I think that Sisko just jumped at a boogeyman, and that he and his family would've been better off had he simply stayed. And if the prophecy does come to pass, and he does know sorrow... I think he'll still be better off for the time he spent with Kasidy and Rebecca.
And may still be spending, without knowing the nature of the sorrow. Sorrow and loss are a natural part of life. The Prophet didn't say that the rest of his life would be happy fluffy bunny time if he did break it off with Kasidy...
The Prophet said that Sisko would know "nothing but sorrow" - not Sisko and Kasidy - if he spent his life with her. He tried to avoid a theoretical sorrow - one that I don't see any basis for outside of the prophecy - and instead created the sorrow himself.
(The kidnapping - or anything happening to Rebecca alone - wouldn't fulfill the prophecy, since that would grant sorrow to Kasidy too. Technically, I suppose the sentences could be parsed as a plural "you" applying to both of them, but I don't think that was the intent.)
So yes, I think that Sisko just jumped at a boogeyman, and that he and his family would've been better off had he simply stayed. And if the prophecy does come to pass, and he does know sorrow... I think he'll still be better off for the time he spent with Kasidy and Rebecca.
And may still be spending, without knowing the nature of the sorrow. Sorrow and loss are a natural part of life. The Prophet didn't say that the rest of his life would be happy fluffy bunny time if he did break it off with Kasidy...
I just don't see it. In your mind, he should have just stayed and, lets say ten years down the line, Kassidy dies, he can just think to himself, "Well, at least you stayed. You done good Ben!". Uh oh. I do not understand this claim of him being selfish. You are telling me that if higher entity people that you believed were telling you the actual, literal truth based on previous experience told you that if you stayed with your wife you would know nothing but sorrow - and in your mind, the worst sorrow would be the loss of family - you would stay, knowing you are probably causing their death? To me, that is selfish. Giving it all up and leaving, causing yourself pain and anguish, but knowing you have given them life, is the opposite of selfish and abandonment.
Which is it - did Kasidy simply die, or did Sisko cause her death?
If she died because of something he didn't cause, well, it's not like running away would help that any. If anything, that might make his sorrow worse - he would be guilt-tripping himself for the rest of his life, wondering if he could've made a difference had he been there.
And if Sisko did cause her death... well, then he deserves the sorrow. :-p
I accept that the Prophet saw sorrow in Ben's future. I'm not willing to stipulate that the Prophet understood that sorrow is a normal, expected part of life. If Sisko and Kasidy spent their life together, one of them would be knowing nothing but sorrow after the other died, regardless of why the death occurred.
And if that was all he gave them, that'd be fine. That ignores the sorrow he caused them, though....
I'm still wondering why the Orbs have gone silent for poor Ben....
Here's hoping for an explanation?
Here's hoping for an explanation?
Damn cheap Ferengi batteries.
The books already contain an explanation. His job as Emissary is done. He's already accomplished what the Prophets needed him to do, so they've cut him loose. (At least, that's how we see it. Since they occupy all time at once, they don't distinguish between past and present, before and after. To them, they're calling on him at the points in time where his involvement is needed, as simple as that. The fact that those points of time are a finite cluster that he's moved beyond isn't something that registers with them.)
So...that's it, then? No advice, no spiritual guidance--nothing?
Sheesh...come to think of it, it all makes sense. It was his experience with the Prophets in "Emissary" that gave him strength to break out of his depression, and get his feet back on the ground.
Now that they're gone...he's all the way back where he started.
In short--he's been leaning on a crutch, all these years. Didn't learn how to walk on his own.
Or is that too harsh?
(Look...I'm not trying to be cruel to Ben. It's just...all this time, we've been used to seeing him as an awesome guy--a leader, who would take charge and stand up when the times called for it. And now--alas. A mere shadow of his former self.)
Sheesh...come to think of it, it all makes sense. It was his experience with the Prophets in "Emissary" that gave him strength to break out of his depression, and get his feet back on the ground.
Now that they're gone...he's all the way back where he started.
In short--he's been leaning on a crutch, all these years. Didn't learn how to walk on his own.
Or is that too harsh?
(Look...I'm not trying to be cruel to Ben. It's just...all this time, we've been used to seeing him as an awesome guy--a leader, who would take charge and stand up when the times called for it. And now--alas. A mere shadow of his former self.)
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I don't think it's so much a matter of wanting instant gratification. I think it's more that a disturbingly large number of people have very poor reading comprehension.
The Reeves-Stevens' Millennium trilogy has a Bajoran sect claim that Sisko was not the true Emissary, that his importance is--substantially--in being the father of a child with Kasidy who will be the Emissary. This fits with the Ohalavaru prophecies of a child being born to Sisko and Kasidy who would inaugurate a golden era.
But if he caused her death through his non-attention to the prophecies, shouldn't he feel guilt? And wouldn't it be better for him to try to avoid the guilt altogether by doing whatever it took to avoid that future?
But they would be alive, at least.
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