They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

[the G-man]

I guess greed has penetrated the WB shield,

Well they are a business and the goal is to make money. If that can be done with something with artistic integrity? Great. If it can be done with garbage from Adam Sandler? Great.

They don't care how they make money.....they're there to make money. All other considerations are secondary.

That is 100% true. And there's nothing wrong with it legally, ethically or morally.

I think the issue, however, is that Marvel put some thought into how to set up an Avengers movie and benefited from decisions made along the way.

WB seems to have simply looked at the grosses for Avengers and decided to just imitate the film concept without considering the need to lay the groundwork that actually made the concept work.

Sure, it might turn out okay. However, given that we have only an untested Superman reboot, a failed Green Lantern film and a successful film Batman that won't be part of the team (in that you don't have Bale/Nolan) to lead up to it, one has to wonder just how they think they'll do this film successfully at this time.

i think the movie going public is ready to move on. You could use the Avengers tremendous success to question my point, but that film was a culmination of years of build up. People wanted to see it, they wanted to see how it played. Same with TDKR, the finale of trilogy built over seven years. People want to see how both of these films will play. It's almost like they are looking for a satisfying way to purge the genre from their system.

I respectfully disagree. I don't think people are ready to move on. They just want to see films that are good.

People went to Avengers initially because they liked the bulk of the films that led up to it. They saw a series of good films and saw this as the latest in that series. Word of mouth built up because the film was actually very good.

No, the sequels probably won't do as well, simply because I don't think they'll have the same word of mouth. But they'll still do well.

DC's problem is that they're trying to build on films that either didn't work, haven't come out yet or aren't likely part of the same continuity.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

I'm seeing a general sense of comic-book overload, a lot of people are kind of sick of them.

People have been saying that for years and predicting that the bubble will pop and the genre will come to a crashing halt, and yet it keeps trucking on. Like any genre, there'll be hits and misses and the number of films released in any given year will go up and down, but I think the genre is here to stay.

WB seems to have simply looked at the grosses for Avengers and decided to just imitate the film concept without considering the need to lay the groundwork that actually made the concept work.

A few points:

- This isn't a script that's been put into development after the release of The Avengers. It's been in development since The Avengers was in production. So, yes, of course Warners will be further spurred by the success of The Avengers, but this isn't a direct immediate response to it.

- We don't know yet what their thinking is regarding the timetable of these films. It can easily be a matter of several years from initital script development to release (if the project goes ahead). Since they have Flash and Wonder Woman films in development, too, one shouldn't assume that a Justice League film will come before both or either of them.

- Even if they do go straight to a Justice League film, there's more than one path to success. The approach Marvel has taken isn't the only way.

 

[Dream]

I'm seeing a general sense of comic-book overload, a lot of people are kind of sick of them. That's all Hollywood is making.

What the heck are you talking about? Comic Movies have been doing well since the first X-Men movie in 2000. That was 13 years ago and the genre is still going strong. They aren't going anywhere right now, especially after the mega hit The Avengers.

 

[Shazam!]

Don't get me wrong I want a JL movie but a good one.

Woah, really?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I'm seeing a general sense of comic-book overload, a lot of people are kind of sick of them.

People have been saying that for years and predicting that the bubble will pop and the genre will come to a crashing halt, and yet it keeps trucking on. Like any genre, there'll be hits and misses and the number of films released in any given year will go up and down, but I think the genre is here to stay.

My point is that this year, the genre will have blown its wad, both of the successful comic book films represent the end of built up anticipation on a scale unlike anything else. I just don't sense that the comic book films that follow these will have the same built-up anticipation. People are tired of the genre, but they still wanted to see how Avengers and Dark knight turn out.

 

[Dick Whitman]

While I did like the Marvel movies leading to the Avengers, I feel the first Iron Man was one that worked as a strong standalone film. The rest just felt like a setup for the Avengers. Good thing that was done so well, it makes Captain America and Thor better. But now that they done that, future solo sequels and team ups are going to need to work as stand alone films to be satisfying.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

My point is that this year, the genre will have blown its wad, both of the successful comic book films represent the end of built up anticipation on a scale unlike anything else. I just don't sense that the comic book films that follow these will have the same built-up anticipation. People are tired of the genre, but they still wanted to see how Avengers and Dark knight turn out.

Again, people have been saying this sort of thing for years.

 

[Greg Cox]

[I'm seeing a general sense of comic-book overload, a lot of people are kind of sick of them. That's all Hollywood is making. watchmen wasn't the success that the studio wanted. Superman returns wasn't either. People didn't buy into how cool Green Lantern would be.. I don't see a lot of excitement for Spider-Man, partly for the reasons you mentioned. But in general, i think the movie going public is ready to move on. [/QUOTE]

[Hope you don't mind that I bolded the key statements for easy reference. Just to be clear, the emphasis is definitely mine.]

Anyway, are you sure you're not just projecting your own feelings on the "movie-going public"? Aside from "a general sense" regarding "a lot of people," I'm not seeing any evidence that audiences have gotten bored with superheroes. Who are these mysterious people you're talking about? Not the ones lining up for the movies, surely, or burning up the internet with constant speculation and rumors about the latest new superhero movie.

It sounds to me like you're sick of superhero movies, and ready to move on, but I don't see any sort of trend here.

 

[SG-17]

Darkseid needs to be the villain.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I want this to be good but the timing does not seem great. Green Lantern at best underperformed (some would say flopped). Superman is being revived and while Man of Steel looks good so far, no-one knows how it will perform. A poor or lukewarm reception, coming after Superman Returns, will make it very difficult to relaunch Mr Kent as a cinematic hero, be it in a solo or ensemble movie. And Wonder Woman remains in developmental limbo.

About the only things that make sense re the timing (in my opinion) are, firstly, the success of The Avengers. And enough has been said about the way Marvel led up to it with the solo outings, as opposed to this (apparently) standalone movie that I don't need to rehearse it again.

The second thing is that Chris Nolan's Batman saga is now coming to an end and doubtless WB will look to revive/ reboot/ relaunch Mr Dark Knight ASAP. It may be that a more fantastical Batman, who pals around with the super-powered and battles enemies from outer space, is just the way to go, in order to distinguish the new take on the Caped Crusader from the most recent one. And this would save them from going down the Amazing Spider-man route, and re-telling his origins again.

But even that is open to dispute; audiences who flocked to Noloan's dark, reality-based take on Bats may be (Bat-shark) repelled by a more fantastic take on the material.

Count me in the reserve judgement camp.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

I just disagree that it's not unwarranted or undeserving to look at a screenwriter as you would any other person in the process-director, producer, composer etc.. and say "Do I like your prior work?", "What have you done lately, was I impressed?"

How do you feel about the directors of You, Me and Dupree directing Captain America 2?

 

[Saga]

i would be more interested in a Flash or Wonder Woman solo film. i'll watch Justice League of course, i'm just not sure a two hour movie will give the audience enough time to connect with any character except Batman or Superman, who they are already familiar with.

 

[Captain Craig]

I'm seeing a general sense of comic-book overload, a lot of people are kind of sick of them.

People have been saying that for years and predicting that the bubble will pop and the genre will come to a crashing halt, and yet it keeps trucking on. Like any genre, there'll be hits and misses and the number of films released in any given year will go up and down, but I think the genre is here to stay.

Exactly. I've come to think that the comic book film genre has evolved in three phases and the current(3rd) phase solidifies the genre.
Phase One
Superman '78 - Superman IV '87: turkey film Howard the Duck
Phase Two
Batman '89 - Men In Black '97: turkey's Judge Dredd, Barb Wire for starters, MIB showed non-traditional could work also.
Phase Three
Blade '98 - Avengers '12: turkey's Elektra, Catwoman, GR2 for starters

Don't get me wrong I want a JL movie but a good one.

Woah, really?

Help me out, why are you surprised?

Superhero movies are a genre now, like cop thrillers or comedies. I don't see them going away any time soon.

The genre has survived, thrived and grown over the past 30+ years with a few turkeys along each decade. Yet Hollywood isn't anymore deterred than when a Grisham novel adaptation tanks. It's a rich source of literary material with a built in audience.
Anyone looking for comic films to go away is not being objective about it. I'm not even sure a general slow down is coming any time soon.
Marvel just completed Phase One of their plans with ringing success. Phase Two is filming now with IM3 underway.
Sony is rebooting Spider-man, results TBD
Fox has arguably(?) already rejuvenated it's X-Men saga with First Class. Sequel forthcoming and Wolverine 2 starting later this year. They also seem intent on DD and FF reboots.
Warners, per this thread, is so encouraged it's got JLA out to script as well as Flash, WW with Man of Steel out next year.

 

[Greg Cox]

Darkseid needs to be the villain.

Unless, maybe, he's too similar to Thanos?

(Yes, you and I know Darkseid came first, but that doesn't matter where the movies are concerned.)

 

[Captain Craig]

I just disagree that it's not unwarranted or undeserving to look at a screenwriter as you would any other person in the process-director, producer, composer etc.. and say "Do I like your prior work?", "What have you done lately, was I impressed?"

How do you feel about the directors of You, Me and Dupree directing Captain America 2?

Leary.
I noticed in the Release I read it mentioned their roles as executive producers on Community. Which, as a show is fairly good I thought "But they are producers, what have they directed?" So I go to IMDB, not impressed.
As a personal rule I'm leary about directing teams.
For every Matrix you get Ghost Rider 2.

As Greg points out upthread some times unconventional has worked. Favs getting Iron Man is the recent example of that. It also springboarded the whole thing. But I wasn't worried for some reason. This is the first director choice that has made me really sit up though. Marvel is due a misfire and these guys, looking at imdb, seem a bit more comedic friendly. I don't want a Cap film going that route. The "fish out of water" schtick only goes so far. Over used it drags on a film, imo. Dark Shadows was fine until act II when Barnabas awakens in the "present", queue fish out of water jokes that ran long.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Ok, whatever, It may be my opinion, and the opinion of almost anyone I meet. It might also be shared by a majority of critics on Rotten tomatoes that I've read, various blogs by genre fans I've visited. Hardly accurate sources, and I haven't conducted any scientific surveys or recorded statistics, - and my opinion certainly colors things, but I'm just stating what I see.
'
My point; I would not be surprised if the new Avenger 2 lead in films with separate heroes fail to meet expectations at the box office. I would not be surprised if ASM has mediocre box office reception. Same with Man of steel. I say that this will happen despite the success of the Avengers.
I think Marvel's strategy, the way they built it up (not to mention good casting) was what made Avengers so successful. It also felt like a comic book on screen dispensing with the things people didn't want really see again (romance plots, origin stories) and gave them more of what they did want to see (different heroes working together, a script that wasn't super-deep but also treated the characters with due respect). It was not a perfect film, but,as Ebert said, it gave fans what they wanted (if not what they deserved). I ndo think its success was due ito its build up and the fact that people walked out having had a good time.

But they just will keep going to that well again and again. It will run dry.

 

[Greg Cox]

As Greg points out upthread some times unconventional has worked. Favs getting Iron Man is the recent example of that. .

It occurs to me that Kenneth Branagh wasn't exactly an obvious choice for a big superhero movie either . . .

(We'll just forget about Ang Lee, okay?)

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Tim Burton and Jon Favreau had comedic backgrounds before making Batman and Iron Man respectively.

I really doubt that, having so shrewdly guarded their movies and adhered to a winning formula and consistent tone to date, Marvel will suddenly allow Captain America 2 to become a Batman and Robin type jokefest. Any more than Iron Man 3 will turn into a Lethal Weapon clone because of Shane Black's involvement.

Marvel have been quite bold for the most part in their choices of directors (Whedon and Branagh especially) with only Louis Leterrier perhaps being an uninspired choice (IMHO). If they saw something in these guys, I'm happy to go along with them, even if I wish Johnston was returning.

 

[Saga]

Darkseid needs to be the villain.

Unless, maybe, he's too similar to Thanos?

(Yes, you and I know Darkseid came first, but that doesn't matter where the movies are concerned.)

true, but the Avengers haven't fought Thanos yet. Justice League could beat them to the punch so to speak. but there are other bad guys who can go toe to toe with the JL. Despero or Amazo just to name two.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

It occurs to me that Kenneth Branagh wasn't exactly an obvious choice for a superhero movie either . . .

For a superhero movie in general, no, but for Thor in particular I think he actually was a pretty obvious choice.

(We'll just forget about Ang Lee, okay?)

I'm in the minority. I (mostly) liked Ang Lee's Hulk.