"James Bond 23" officially slated for 2012!

[Sci]

Re-watching both Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace tonight. Interestingly, Quantum's plot in Solace, to seize control of Bolivia's newly privatized fresh water supply under the auspices of a puppet government indebted to them, strongly resembles the real-life Bolivian "Water Wars" of 2000.

So much for Quantum being both leftists and rightists.

 

[Starkers]

But they are, Green says so. Quantum will work with the left or the right, they have no interest in politics, only money/power.

 

[Sci]

But they are, Green says so. Quantum will work with the left or the right, they have no interest in politics, only money/power.

Actually, rewatching that scene, what he's saying is, We don't care who it is that's in power; we'll bribe them, threaten them, corrupt them, do whatever we have to do to put them under our thumb. You can sign our deal to give us control of Bolivia's water supply once we put you in power, or we'll kill you.

He's not saying that Quantum itself is both leftist and rightist; he's saying, they'll buy off or threaten any government, be it nominally leftist or rightist, so long as they get what they want. And meanwhile, their plot is one that's actually been used by real-life rightists.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Re-watching both Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace tonight. Interestingly, Quantum's plot in Solace, to seize control of Bolivia's newly privatized fresh water supply--

Nationalization of a private industry, mind you --

under the auspices of a puppet government indebted to them, strongly resembles the real-life Bolivian "Water Wars" of 2000.

So much for Quantum being both leftists and rightists.

Ah...if you're referring to the organization, I never said that. They are apolitical, using both to further their agenda.

Beyond that--

And meanwhile, their plot is one that's actually been used by real-life rightists.

And what are their methods? Effectively, to fake climate change.

Observe Mr. Greene--with a name like "Green", amusingly enough --posing as an enviromental activist blaming the drought on...destruction of the rain forest. This is as a front to excuse his buying up of the land in question.

Further, when we first hear of the drought, it's through the amusing ramblings of the taxi driver. Mathis notes to Bond and Miss Fields, "He blames the water shortage on global warming," as the taxi driver notes in his whining, "They say the glaciers are melting!"

Of course...that's not the reason, as it turns out.

Again, the movie has something both sides can delight in. I stand by that point, and apologize for nothing.

 

[Sci]

Re-watching both Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace tonight. Interestingly, Quantum's plot in Solace, to seize control of Bolivia's newly privatized fresh water supply--

Nationalization of a private industry, mind you

No, their plot isn't to nationalize Greene's company. The plot is to essentially have Greene's company control Bolivia's water supply with a puppet government. It's the opposite of nationalizing an industry, really. When you nationalize a company in a democracy, you put it under the control of the democratically-elected government. Quantum's plot in Solace was to end Bolivian democracy and put the Bolivian government under the control of a private company.

And meanwhile, their plot is one that's actually been used by real-life rightists.

And what are their methods? Effectively, to fake climate change.

No, their method is to use real climate change to explain their damming of the Bolivian water supply, and to then put a puppet dictator in power who will give them a monopoly on the water supply. The plot also brings to mind the behavior of Enron, which rather famously fraudulently created scarcity of supply for California's electricity back in 2000.

 

[DimesDan]

This is a thread to discuss Skyfall and not the political shenanigans of the previous film, yes?

 

[Rush Limborg]

^Of course. However...I did feel the claims brought up--in this thread--by the other side warranted an answer. It may be tacky to say, "Well, he started it...." But, you know--I love discussion, provided it not fall to incivility.

Anyhow, as readers can clearly see, the interpretation of the events of said film can easily vary depending on what one's leanings are--and that's precisely what I like about the film. You can argue (as I do) that Quantum is faking global warming. You can argue (as Sci does) that they are using a legitimate issue in a dishonest way.

You can argue (as I do) that they are effectively engaging in a big-government crony-capitalist (read: false capitalism used to prop up said big government) tyrrany. Or you can argue as Sci did.

The validity of either point of view depends not on the facts established in the film itself, but rather what you believe about issues of the world. And that's one of the great things about being human.

 

[DimesDan]

^Of course. However...I did feel the claims brought up--in this thread--by the other side warranted an answer. It may be tacky to say, "Well, he started it...." But, you know--I love discussion, provided it not fall to incivility.

Yawn.

This is a thread about Skyfall, not the political shenanigans in the previous film. You really wanted to address the thing's brought up with Sci, sure, fine, that's what PMs are for or you could create a new thread on the subject.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^Uh-huh. You could, of course...kindly adress both parties in such a rebuke--or neither. Otherwise, it could easily be construed to indicate choosing sides.

However, as the rest of my previous post indicates, I am fully willing to leave well enough alone, with the agreement to disagree. I think the discussion has run its course--and that both parties would end up repeating the same points over and over.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Threads on the BBS take all sorts of diversions and unexpected detours in their subjects, particularly when they're about the making of a movie and its release is some time away. I drop into this thread regularly and I had no problem with Rush and Sci's debate.

 

[Aldo]

^Of course. However...I did feel the claims brought up--in this thread--by the other side warranted an answer. It may be tacky to say, "Well, he started it...." But, you know--I love discussion, provided it not fall to incivility.

Yawn.

This is a thread about Skyfall, not the political shenanigans in the previous film. You really wanted to address the thing's brought up with Sci, sure, fine, that's what PMs are for or you could create a new thread on the subject.

The film is still another 5 or six months away (depending on where you live). People can only discuss the teaser so many times. I think if the subject veers off into other Bond related talks shouldn't be a problem.

Or you know, you could use your posts to get the thread back on topic rather than complaining about other people.

 

[Starkers]

I'm still tittering at the notion of Bond as a left wing hero...

The guy works for the Establishment, hell when alls' said and done the guy works for the Queen!!

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Yes, I think that notorious right-winger and racist Ian Fleming might have rolled in his grave at the idea!

 

[Starkers]

Don't be silly, rolling in graves is the sort of low behaviour foreigners get up to, not English gentlemen!

 

[Captaindemotion]

^I'm only a silly mick, I wouldn't know!

 

[Sci]

I'm still tittering at the notion of Bond as a left wing hero...

The guy works for the Establishment, hell when alls' said and done the guy works for the Queen!!

I didn't say Bond was a left-wing hero, I said Quantum was really far to the right.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^And I say...Dominic Greene (of Greene Planet) is a fictionalized Albert Gore, Jr.!

 

[Sci]

I'm still tittering at the notion of Bond as a left wing hero...

The guy works for the Establishment, hell when alls' said and done the guy works for the Queen!!

I didn't say Bond was a left-wing hero, I said Quantum was really far to the right.

^And I say...Dominic Greene (of Greene Planet) is a fictionalized Albert Gore, Jr.!

Considering that Al Gore is a neoliberal corporate apologist with right-leaning economic policies, I am glad to hear that we agree.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Oh, for Pete's sake....

But hey--this mindset frankly explains a lot. If Al Gore is a right-winger next to this one...sheesh....


Needless to say, I give up. For now.

 

[Starkers]

I'm still unsure why the fact that Quntum were mimicing a right wing plot makes them right wing? Are they in it for money and power, well duh, but there are plenty of left leaning organisations/individuals out there who've done the same thing? None of the Politburo ever lived in poverty after all.