I love the Par'Mach episode. Worf controls Quark to avoid embarrassment with Grilka. With sexy results!
TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine
- Thread starter TheGodBen
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LOL. A high plausible explaination.
I've never actually played a Diablo game and I have no idea what they're about. 
I watched Nor the Battle... a few weeks ago and half-wrote the review, but then I got called away and I just haven't gotten around to finishing it for some reason. Hopefully not much longer.
I watched Nor the Battle... a few weeks ago and half-wrote the review, but then I got called away and I just haven't gotten around to finishing it for some reason. Hopefully not much longer.
Heh, neither have I. From what I can gather on the internet, Diablo 3 is a game about trying to log onto some external server. If you stay online for more than a few hours, it means you're winning.I've never actually played a Diablo game and I have no idea what they're about.
Sounds like a boring game if you ask me, but it's apparently a huge seller.
Nor the Battle to the Strong (*****)
I went back and forth about the score for this episode, I don't hand out five star reviews lightly (as you may have noticed), and I struggle to justify them to myself when I do, often focusing on minor flaws so I have some reason to strip the episode of half a star. And this episode does have some minor flaws to it, such as the randomness of the Klingons breaking the ceasefire and then reinstating it, or how it's sometimes a little wearying with the "war is hell" message. But this episode does one thing perfectly, and that is utilising a character that usually gets the least development and giving him a story that's meaningful, and which suits where he's at and where he's going.
Star Trek focuses so much time on Starfleet officers and the heroic deeds that they get up to that it's all too easy to forget that these people are supposed to represent the best that humanity (and alienity) have to offer. But what about the civilians, what about the carpenters, and the factory workers, and the writers? They just lives their lives doing normal things. Maybe they'll happen upon someone drowning one day and become an accidental hero by rescuing them, but for most of them the closest they come to heroism is reading about it in a book, or acting it out in the safety of the holodeck. Star Trek normally ignores these people, they're the extras in the background that run for cover while the heroes are shooting things. And there's nothing wrong with that, they're not cowardly for not wanting to be in the line of fire, but we're just so used to following the heroes that it comes across that way.
Jake's not a coward, and he's not a hero, and it's interesting watching him grappling with the complexities of just being normal. And while it may be a little too neat to end the episode with the message that Jake's willingness to admit he's not brave makes him brave in a different way, it's kinda true. I've had moments of cowardice in my life that I'm not going to write down and admit even anonymously over the internet, and I'll continue to overemphasise the moments of bravery I've had 'til the end of my days. Because I'm a coward like that. But perhaps my willingness to admit that I'm a coward about my cowardice really makes me brave? And does my willingness to mention my bravery just then really make me a coward? But does that make me brave?
For creating this never-ending loop of rhetorical questions, this episode earns five stars.
I went back and forth about the score for this episode, I don't hand out five star reviews lightly (as you may have noticed), and I struggle to justify them to myself when I do, often focusing on minor flaws so I have some reason to strip the episode of half a star. And this episode does have some minor flaws to it, such as the randomness of the Klingons breaking the ceasefire and then reinstating it, or how it's sometimes a little wearying with the "war is hell" message. But this episode does one thing perfectly, and that is utilising a character that usually gets the least development and giving him a story that's meaningful, and which suits where he's at and where he's going.
Star Trek focuses so much time on Starfleet officers and the heroic deeds that they get up to that it's all too easy to forget that these people are supposed to represent the best that humanity (and alienity) have to offer. But what about the civilians, what about the carpenters, and the factory workers, and the writers? They just lives their lives doing normal things. Maybe they'll happen upon someone drowning one day and become an accidental hero by rescuing them, but for most of them the closest they come to heroism is reading about it in a book, or acting it out in the safety of the holodeck. Star Trek normally ignores these people, they're the extras in the background that run for cover while the heroes are shooting things. And there's nothing wrong with that, they're not cowardly for not wanting to be in the line of fire, but we're just so used to following the heroes that it comes across that way.
Jake's not a coward, and he's not a hero, and it's interesting watching him grappling with the complexities of just being normal. And while it may be a little too neat to end the episode with the message that Jake's willingness to admit he's not brave makes him brave in a different way, it's kinda true. I've had moments of cowardice in my life that I'm not going to write down and admit even anonymously over the internet, and I'll continue to overemphasise the moments of bravery I've had 'til the end of my days. Because I'm a coward like that. But perhaps my willingness to admit that I'm a coward about my cowardice really makes me brave? And does my willingness to mention my bravery just then really make me a coward? But does that make me brave?
For creating this never-ending loop of rhetorical questions, this episode earns five stars.
TheGodBen; you missed an opportunity to knock off half a star: that Starfleet guy who shot himself in the foot. That first scene with him was the worst case of overacting I've ever seen! Bad cast or bad directing; take your pick.
Other than that ...Nor the Battle to the Strong was a great episode, and it's nice to see a threat other than the Dominion being so effectively utilized.
Oh yeah another reason to knock off half a star: that scene with Dax and Sisko in the Defiant's engine room. It felt forced and a bit TNGish with Dax's insufferable optimism (geez I sound like Garak!).
I also think later on the writers missed a trick with Jake, because when they really thought about it (and worked hard; lazy buggers [Meridian, Rivals cough cough]) they came up with some of DS9s best episodes centering around Jake (Explorers, The Visitor and ...Nor the Battle to the Strong). They could have had more great episodes in the making if they made Jake into this private investigative journalist. Think about: Jake would interact with Quark more and the senior staff, Jake would get around, bring up the dirt on command decisions and important events and happenings (through 'sources'). Hell you could really push it and somehow get Section 31 involved with Jake discovering something top secret.
All those possibilities. This episode though is probably the last great episode with Jake taking center point, after that Jake gets left behind in the dust...
RIP Jake's character development, it never quite caught up with his physical development...
Ahem...
Other than that ...Nor the Battle to the Strong was a great episode, and it's nice to see a threat other than the Dominion being so effectively utilized.
Oh yeah another reason to knock off half a star: that scene with Dax and Sisko in the Defiant's engine room. It felt forced and a bit TNGish with Dax's insufferable optimism (geez I sound like Garak!).
I also think later on the writers missed a trick with Jake, because when they really thought about it (and worked hard; lazy buggers [Meridian, Rivals cough cough]) they came up with some of DS9s best episodes centering around Jake (Explorers, The Visitor and ...Nor the Battle to the Strong). They could have had more great episodes in the making if they made Jake into this private investigative journalist. Think about: Jake would interact with Quark more and the senior staff, Jake would get around, bring up the dirt on command decisions and important events and happenings (through 'sources'). Hell you could really push it and somehow get Section 31 involved with Jake discovering something top secret.
All those possibilities. This episode though is probably the last great episode with Jake taking center point, after that Jake gets left behind in the dust...
RIP Jake's character development, it never quite caught up with his physical development...
Ahem...
That was one of the early story ideas behind In The Pale Moonlight. It would have been Jake narrating how he discovered Benjamin's misdeeds in his role as a reporter. But it was changed to Benjamin recording a log entry.
I once speculated on another story that could have happened with Jake in season 7. In fact it was spread over three episodes. Somewhere around mid-season, he could have been trying to do stories for the FNS but locked out of major command decisions for security reasons, so he would turn to non-combatant cultures for their perspectives - the Ferengi and the Bajorans. With the Ferengi he could have stumbled upon
Zek's resignation and plans to make Rom the new Nagus
and with Bajor we could have had an episode focusing more on
the pagh-Wraith cult and Jake's feelings about his father's place in Bajoran religion
And then towards the end of the season, in the Final Chapter arc...
On a tip from the contacts he made in the earlier episode, he could have investigated the mysterious disappearance of the kai's aide Solbor, the suddenness with which the Kai has cloistered herself away with a strange man, and rumours about some wacky ancient magic book. And in the course of following his leads, he could have ended up in the Fire Caves and witnessed his father's final confrontation with Winn and Dukat.
Just a few thoughts.
.
I thought they could have gone into more seasons. It would have been interesting to see what the aftermath of the war would be like. And, I think there was a great deal to talk about Ezri Dax and maybe add new characters to give a more updated feel to the show.
Have thought of a story, that one of Kursans lost son or daughter came to the station to talk to Ezri. Not to tell her she or he was the child of Kursan Dax. They get along and the person dies of a natural death that everyone understood was goingto happen. Right after the death, Ezri finds out the person was the child of Kurson.
Have thought of a story, that one of Kursans lost son or daughter came to the station to talk to Ezri. Not to tell her she or he was the child of Kursan Dax. They get along and the person dies of a natural death that everyone understood was goingto happen. Right after the death, Ezri finds out the person was the child of Kurson.
Yeah, I'm afraid I'm in the "not-so-crazy about this episode" camp. It's good, but no more than 4 stars in my book, probably closer to 3 and 1/2.
Provoked by the review, I rewatched the episode. It's a good examination of the intersection of courage and cowardice, but I do feel that the execution was somewhat lackluster. Ln X and gazomg are right about the instances of over-acting, in my books, at least. And I feel like there was a lack of focus in the story; yes, it's mainly about Jake, but there's a little bit in there with Bashir interacting with the doctor whose spouse is serving on the Tecumseh, and more than a little bit with Sisko needing to keep busy, but not enough to give it real punch.
I think the episode would have worked better if it all had been from Jake's perspective, with us not knowing whether or not his dad is on the way, emphasizing both the isolation of the situation and the overstimulation Jake was facing.
Also, tangentially, Jake rarely seems to act as one would expect a young man who lost his mother traumatically at a young age to. That sort of experience messes with people of any age, and particularly if you're young. To be honest, I would have thought that this kind of traumatic experience for Jake might have brought back memories of the loss of his mother.
Jake Sisko, DS9's most secondary primary character.
Provoked by the review, I rewatched the episode. It's a good examination of the intersection of courage and cowardice, but I do feel that the execution was somewhat lackluster. Ln X and gazomg are right about the instances of over-acting, in my books, at least. And I feel like there was a lack of focus in the story; yes, it's mainly about Jake, but there's a little bit in there with Bashir interacting with the doctor whose spouse is serving on the Tecumseh, and more than a little bit with Sisko needing to keep busy, but not enough to give it real punch.
I think the episode would have worked better if it all had been from Jake's perspective, with us not knowing whether or not his dad is on the way, emphasizing both the isolation of the situation and the overstimulation Jake was facing.
Also, tangentially, Jake rarely seems to act as one would expect a young man who lost his mother traumatically at a young age to. That sort of experience messes with people of any age, and particularly if you're young. To be honest, I would have thought that this kind of traumatic experience for Jake might have brought back memories of the loss of his mother.
Jake Sisko, DS9's most secondary primary character.
I agree with your last sentence - Jake was really underused in the last few years of the show, and it was a real shame becuase episodes that focussed on him were usually dynamite.
I love ...Nor the Battle very much. It's a very visceral, traumatic experience for Jake to go through, and I thought it was portrayed very well. I think it's done slightly better in season seven with AR-558 and It's Only A Paper Moon, but by then the writers were taking more risks with open-ended episodes. It's a shame that Jake couldn't have a leg blown off or something. Anything, really, to help with his lack of development.
I love ...Nor the Battle very much. It's a very visceral, traumatic experience for Jake to go through, and I thought it was portrayed very well. I think it's done slightly better in season seven with AR-558 and It's Only A Paper Moon, but by then the writers were taking more risks with open-ended episodes. It's a shame that Jake couldn't have a leg blown off or something. Anything, really, to help with his lack of development.
I liked Nor the Battle a great deal. Aside from everything that has been mentioned, I also liked the interactions between Bashir and Jake a lot. I think they could've ended up good friends in the last few seasons, and it's quite a shame the writers never did anything with that idea (or with Odo and Worf, who I think barely interacted after season four).
What's special about this episode is that it pushes the boundaries of Star Trek into something more darker and real. This is DS9 experimenting and ascending far beyond its TNGish roots. The casting (aside from the guy who shot himself in the foot) is perfect and I love that grizzled old veteran stuck in the trench talking to Jake. What a face!
Ironically I think season 5 is the darkest of all seasons because there is still some mystery to Dominion motives, and episodes like this one leave a lasting impression upon the viewer.
After all that rambling Curzon had a child?
That is a very good point (about pushing the boundaries), and one that is easy to forget. Still, something in the execution just doesn't cut it for me.
Maybe it's that I find Jake only somewhat sympathetic in this episode. His cowardice doesn't bother me, it's his, well, stupidity. I'm not talking about his running away during the shelling, that's understandable. I'm talking about stuff like his internal monologue at the beginning of the episode, where he's like "Surgery under fire, aw yeah!" I don't care how caught up in enthusiasm he is, he's 18 years old, he should have enough sense to realize that that's not the way it's gonna be.
Or when he volunteered to go with Bashir to get the generators. He (and Bashir for that matter) should have realized the potential for Bad Things to happen out there, and should have suggested that someone with training for these situations should go.
Or at the end, when everyone else is evacuating. Does Jake evacuate or try to help? No, he goes and hides underneath a table that's not even big enough to cover him. I know he was shell-shocked, but still...
My point is that, Starfleet officer or not, Jake should have some more sense than he showed in this episode. And that makes me sympathize for him less.
Still, the point about the episode pushing the boundaries more and giving a more nuanced look at 24th century humanity is well taken. I could definitely be convinced that, within the context of the overall series, the episode merits TheGodBen's 5 stars.
The Assignment (***½)
Is this the beginning of the Pah-wraith arc? I suppose it is, even though this is clearly just a one-off episode and there's not even a hint that the Pah-wraiths are going to return, and Sisko barely does anything, but this episode does introduce their conflict with the Prophets and bodily possession and their love of overacting their evilness. Actually, they're not too bad in this one, at least their evilness is limited to wanting to kill the Prophets and there's nothing about being so filled with hate that they want to destroy the entire universe. Even though Evil Keiko (not to be mistaken with μKeiko, who is a lesbian) is about as subtle in her motivations as a kick to the groinal region, she's still more understated than the red-eyed, fire-breathing Pah-wraiths that we'll meet later.
As an O'Brien Must Suffer™ episode, it's pretty good. He's a man working under pressure, in constant fear for his wife and child, and unable to reveal the truth to anyone. He's willing to break the rules, he's willing to sabotage the station, he's willing to involve an innocent, clueless man in his misdeeds, and he's willing to implicate him in his place. He's even willing to use his famous back-hand-of-doom on Odo. He's willing to cross all sorts of moral boundaries because he doesn't want to risk the alternative. Except at the end where he decides that killing the Prophets would be too much so he risks killing Keiko instead in an overly-cheesy lightning-fest in a runabout. Then O'Brien explains everything off-screen and everything is forgiven. The end.
Oh, and Rom gets some stuff to do in this episode. He starts out knee-deep in shit (literally), he plays dumb and commits some treasonous crimes, and then he gets promoted. It's a good thing too, if the Pah-wraith hadn't possessed Keiko then this whole thing would never have happened, O'Brien would never have worked out that Rom's a genius, Rom wouldn't have come up with the idea of self-replicating mines, and the Dominion would have overwhelmed the Alpha Quadrant. Everyone owes Evil Keiko a debt of gratitude for that.
Wormhole in Peril: 5
Is this the beginning of the Pah-wraith arc? I suppose it is, even though this is clearly just a one-off episode and there's not even a hint that the Pah-wraiths are going to return, and Sisko barely does anything, but this episode does introduce their conflict with the Prophets and bodily possession and their love of overacting their evilness. Actually, they're not too bad in this one, at least their evilness is limited to wanting to kill the Prophets and there's nothing about being so filled with hate that they want to destroy the entire universe. Even though Evil Keiko (not to be mistaken with μKeiko, who is a lesbian) is about as subtle in her motivations as a kick to the groinal region, she's still more understated than the red-eyed, fire-breathing Pah-wraiths that we'll meet later.
As an O'Brien Must Suffer™ episode, it's pretty good. He's a man working under pressure, in constant fear for his wife and child, and unable to reveal the truth to anyone. He's willing to break the rules, he's willing to sabotage the station, he's willing to involve an innocent, clueless man in his misdeeds, and he's willing to implicate him in his place. He's even willing to use his famous back-hand-of-doom on Odo. He's willing to cross all sorts of moral boundaries because he doesn't want to risk the alternative. Except at the end where he decides that killing the Prophets would be too much so he risks killing Keiko instead in an overly-cheesy lightning-fest in a runabout. Then O'Brien explains everything off-screen and everything is forgiven. The end.
Oh, and Rom gets some stuff to do in this episode. He starts out knee-deep in shit (literally), he plays dumb and commits some treasonous crimes, and then he gets promoted. It's a good thing too, if the Pah-wraith hadn't possessed Keiko then this whole thing would never have happened, O'Brien would never have worked out that Rom's a genius, Rom wouldn't have come up with the idea of self-replicating mines, and the Dominion would have overwhelmed the Alpha Quadrant. Everyone owes Evil Keiko a debt of gratitude for that.
Wormhole in Peril: 5
I loved The Assignment. It was by far the best acting Rosalind Chao ever displayed on Star Trek. Possessed Keiko was terrifying, especially while pretending nothing was wrong. I can certainly understand why they wanted to bring the Pagh-Wraits back after this episode, but why they felt the need to do it in such an idiotic, cliché manner I have no idea. The Pah-Wraith here is subtle (not about her intentions, perhaps, but very much in how she's acting, with no-one but the Chief ever realising something's wrong with Keiko) and cunning. Imagine if Keiko had come off that transport with red eyes and a stupid voice, how long do you think it would've taken anyone to clue in?
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