Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theories?

[Ro_Laren]

While watching TNG, DS9 and VOY, I always thought it was interesting that while we know Starfleet officers were somehow equipped with universal translators, we sometimes heard alien species talking in their native language. For example, sometimes you would hear a Klingon speaking “in English” (presumably translated by the universal translator), but then suddenly he/she would say a word or phrase in Klingon. Take for example when you’ve watched an episode / movie and heard a Klingon say, “qapla!” (success!).

What are your theories? Please note that I am referring to languages that are already familiar to the Federation and not unfamiliar languages like the one seen in the TNG episode Darmok.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

I think some alien words and phrases are adopted due to fairly frequent usage or if it's a unique word/proper name with no equivalent.

 

[sojourner]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

English is a scavenger language. Those words and phrases have obviously made it into the dictionary.

 

[MacLeod]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

^I'd go with that theory as well, many foreign words are adopted into the English language. So if a word has become part of the language it no longer needs a translation.

 

[nightwind1]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

While watching TNG, DS9 and VOY, I always thought it was interesting that while we know Starfleet officers were somehow equipped with universal translators, we sometimes heard alien species talking in their native language. For example, sometimes you would hear a Klingon speaking “in English” (presumably translated by the universal translator), but then suddenly he/she would say a word or phrase in Klingon. Take for example when you’ve watched an episode / movie and heard a Klingon say, “qapla!” (success!).

What are your theories? Please note that I am referring to languages that are already familiar to the Federation and not unfamiliar languages like the one seen in the TNG episode Darmok.

To quote James Nicoll, in a USENet post from 1990:

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Nicoll#cite_note-4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Nicoll#cite_note-4

 

[Timo]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

The specific types of words in question here would just as probably get mugged by languages more civilized than English, though.

The words most often left untranslated are curses and foods/beverages. In the real languages of this island Earth, those tend to be untranslatable: any attempt to define or even describe that which is being said would entail a fifteen-word sentence rather than a matching word. At best, you could abbreviate these into something like "helper of warm dogs" or "Andorian cucumber meatballs", which doesn't really tell you all that much about how severe the curse is or what the food is gonna look or taste like.

Right in the tail of curses and edibles come ceremonies and animals. Again, it would probably take two fairly thick volumes rather than one word to adequately translate a Bajoran ritual for making the Sun go down happy, and "Rigelian winged bloodworm" ain't really an improvement over the native askaniat. I mean, we don't translate hanukkah or kakadu, either.

OTOH, it stands to reason that the UT would come with an obscenity filter - only, instead of doing a BLEEP, it simply leaves the curse untranslated.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

Makes you wonder how many times Kirk heard Scotty answer with "yes."

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

There is also the possibility that Aliens are actually speaking English and the UT is intelligent enough to know that when the speaker switches o his native language in the same conversation it is intended for the listener to hear it that way.

 

[Timo]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

...Although since we only hear short words in alien languages, in the middle of long passages of English, the likelier scenario is that the aliens are speaking their native language most of the time - and occasionally dropping in an individual word that is foreign to them, i.e. an English word. And the UT realizes why that is being done, and emulates the effect by reversing the languages.

Like that DS9 "Blood Oath" chat between three Klingons and Dax, where Dax suddenly switches from English to Klingonaase for a single word: "Dakturak", which she then seemingly translates to English for the benefit of her Klingon companions: "Iceman". Makes no sense that way - but perfect sense if we assume the UT in our ears reversed the languages. Dax used a foreign, English word in the middle of the Klingonaase conversation, just like Curzon Dax had done a century ago, and then explained that it meant "Iceman" in Klingonaase.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[GSnail]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

I read in some memory alpha article that the UT looks at brainwaves and says what you want to say, so maybe when you have the thought of saying something in your native language, the translator wouldn't translate that word/phrase.

 

[Timo]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

It doesn't IMHO really make sense for anyone to have "the thought of saying something in one's native language". Why would anybody ever want to do that? As opposed to, say, the very natural desire of saying everything in one's native language and letting the UT translate it all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

Why would anybody ever want to do that?

Leaving a word or term in a foreign language can add meaning to what you're trying to say to someone, a form of accentuation. Also, not all words directly translation from one language to another, one word in Spanish might need dozens in English to fully explain.

Occasional I throw in a drawn out "sí," in my otherwise english conversations. Meaning: " yes the stupid brown girl understands completely fukkhead" (then I smile).

 

[gastrof]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

Makes you wonder how many times Kirk heard Scotty answer with "yes."

Likely never, since "aye" has been absorbed into the English language for a very long time.

Kirk likely heard "aye".

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

Likely never, since "aye" has been absorbed into the English language for a very long time.

Kirk likely heard "aye".

I wonder, you almost never hear "aye" in Seattle. Would the UT (assuming it's always on) bland out all the language heard. Aye become yes. Sure becomes yes. So that there can be no misunderstandings even between two people speaking the (supposed) same language. When movies made in Brazil play in Portugal, there are sub-titles at the bottom of the screen, even thought Brazilians and Portuguese both speak Portuguese. At what point does the UT begin to translate, when does it kick in?

If someone from Liverpool, with a 'Scouse' accent, were to be speaking to someone from Louisiana with a 'Bayou' accent, would the UT remain on standby? They are both speaking English after all.

Now admittedly Scotty's accent is soft to non-existent, but in a hypothetically combat situation, do you want any misunderstanding?

Picard: "Merde."
Riker: "No thanks, I just went."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

I read in some memory alpha article that the UT looks at brainwaves and says what you want to say, so maybe when you have the thought of saying something in your native language, the translator wouldn't translate that word/phrase.

That's always been my thought as well - that a speaker can 'override' the UT if he/she wants to say something natively.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

There is a scene in DS9 where Sisko, as the emissary, gives a blessing to a engaged/newly wed Bajorian couple. He does it (iirc) Bajorian. Kira complements him on the improvement in his spoken delivery and his accent.

So either he learns Bajorian (not impossible), he learned the blessing phonetically (didn't know really what he was saying), or the UT was helping him.

If the UT was in play, then perhaps he thought out (in his head) the blessing in English, the translator played it back in Bajorian word for word in his mind, or in his ear somehow, and Sisko simply repeated what he "heard" out loud.

Can't remember the name of the episode (help?).

 

[Vanyel]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

Maybe the UT, can be programmed to leave commonly known words untranslated. If we had them now, who would really need the UT to translate "No" between English, German, Russian, Spanish, French or Italian speakers?

Others may prefer the UT to translate everything.

The UT could also have a slight delay built into it so it can know from context when not to translate. "On my world we call this a "Kl'EmpHrnomindaid." and not say "On my world we call this 'Wine servered only to guests or to close friends during ritual burial services.'"

Just to touch on the episode Darmok, the UT was able to translate the individual words, but since it had no context in which to put them the UT, not the Tamarians, was speaking gibberish.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

who would really need the UT to translate "No" ... Italian

Just out of curiosity what is no in Italian? I know thank you, and excuse me.

 

[MacLeod]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

Likely never, since "aye" has been absorbed into the English language for a very long time.

Kirk likely heard "aye".

I wonder, you almost never hear "aye" in Seattle. Would the UT (assuming it's always on) bland out all the language heard. Aye become yes. Sure becomes yes. So that there can be no misunderstandings even between two people speaking the (supposed) same language. When movies made in Brazil play in Portugal, there are sub-titles at the bottom of the screen, even thought Brazilians and Portuguese both speak Portuguese. At what point does the UT begin to translate, when does it kick in?

If someone from Liverpool, with a 'Scouse' accent, were to be speaking to someone from Louisiana with a 'Bayou' accent, would the UT remain on standby? They are both speaking English after all.

Now admittedly Scotty's accent is soft to non-existent, but in a hypothetically combat situation, do you want any misunderstanding?

Picard: "Merde."
Riker: "No thanks, I just went."

But in the case of Aye, doesn't the military use it? And Scots might use it instead of 'yes' occasionaly. So perhaps aside from it's use in the military it is more commonly used in say places like the UK. Even I use it fairly often, but then again I am a Scot.

 

[Vanyel]

Re: Universal Translator and Untranslated Words- What Are Your Theorie

who would really need the UT to translate "No" ... Italian

Just out of curiosity what is no in Italian? I know thank you, and excuse me.

No