Should Spock Prime Spill His Guts?

[Franklin]

What's to say Spock won't use his knowledge to subtly guide and influence aspects of the new universe for the better. Quietly, behind the scenes...

Excellent point.

No, it's not. Unless Spock Prime has god-like illusions. Think of the power he would have making those decisions on his own.

I was thinking, it wouldn't be illogical (no pun intended) for Spock Prime to go to Starfleet and just start telling them everything he knows about his timeline. The universe has already been altered in such a fundamental way that there's no reason to try and avoid it.

What I'm wondering is why Spock, who used the "slingshot-around-the-sun" maneuver to go back in time and save Earth in ST:IV, doesn't do the same thing to save Vulcan?

Our heroes in TVH were trying to prevent something from happening, not change something that already happened. A subtle, but important difference.

 

[Ryan8bit]

So do you think that if the Earth had actually been destroyed that they would just give up and say, "Well, it's already happened, so we might as well just throw in the towel"? It's not really an important difference, and there are other episodes that do show they will go back to fix things that were changed.

 

[Franklin]

So do you think that if the Earth had actually been destroyed that they would just give up and say, "Well, it's already happened, so we might as well just throw in the towel"? It's not really an important difference, and there are other episodes that do show they will go back to fix things that were changed.

They changed things that weren't "supposed" to have happened within a specific time line. Like "City on the Edge of Forever", "First Contact", or "Yesterday's Enterprise". Even then, in "Yesterday's Enterprise", it took real convincing from Guinan that things "weren't right" before Picard agreed to send the Enterprise-C back to its time.

In the ST09 universe, Vulcan was destroyed. Trying to go back within the time line of that universe to prevent it wouldn't be "restoring" something or "correcting" something that shouldn't have happend, it would be blatantly manipulating history. It would be like ending the Dominion War in DS9 by going back in time and preventing the spark that ignited it. I suppose the ethics of doing something like that can be debated.

 

[Set Harth]

What's to say Spock won't use his knowledge to subtly guide and influence aspects of the new universe for the better. Quietly, behind the scenes...

Excellent point.

No, it's not. Unless Spock Prime has god-like illusions. Think of the power he would have making those decisions on his own.

I was thinking, it wouldn't be illogical (no pun intended) for Spock Prime to go to Starfleet and just start telling them everything he knows about his timeline. The universe has already been altered in such a fundamental way that there's no reason to try and avoid it.

What I'm wondering is why Spock, who used the "slingshot-around-the-sun" maneuver to go back in time and save Earth in ST:IV, doesn't do the same thing to save Vulcan?

Our heroes in TVH were trying to prevent something from happening, not change something that already happened. A subtle, but important difference.

You could say they were trying to change the lack of availability of humpback whales.

 

[F. King Daniel]

When it comes to going back to undo something bad, where do you draw the line? Vulcan, the Xindi attack? Something further back like WWIII? And, if "anything that can happen, does happen, in alternate quantum realities" (Data, "Parallels") are you really undoing anything that happened, or just putting yourself into a timeline that better suits your sensibilities?

 

[Ryan8bit]

So do you think that if the Earth had actually been destroyed that they would just give up and say, "Well, it's already happened, so we might as well just throw in the towel"? It's not really an important difference, and there are other episodes that do show they will go back to fix things that were changed.

They changed things that weren't "supposed" to have happened within a specific time line. Like "City on the Edge of Forever", "First Contact", or "Yesterday's Enterprise". Even then, in "Yesterday's Enterprise", it took real convincing from Guinan that things "weren't right" before Picard agreed to send the Enterprise-C back to its time.

In the ST09 universe, Vulcan was destroyed. Trying to go back within the time line of that universe to prevent it wouldn't be "restoring" something or "correcting" something that shouldn't have happend, it would be blatantly manipulating history. It would be like ending the Dominion War in DS9 by going back in time and preventing the spark that ignited it. I suppose the ethics of doing something like that can be debated.

In Spock Prime's recollection, Vulcan wasn't "supposed" to have been destroyed. It's no more manipulating history than all the other times they've gone back to do very similar things, and it's nowhere near comparable to altering something that wasn't already altered.

It's just one of those things we have to admit is an inconsistency and move on.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What I'm wondering is why Spock, who used the "slingshot-around-the-sun" maneuver to go back in time and save Earth in ST:IV, doesn't do the same thing to save Vulcan?

He barely had time to get his bearings before the Jellyfish was captured. By the time nuSpock assumed control of that ship, everyone was too busy fighting Nero. And there's no indication that the Jellyfish, advanced as it was, could even survive the stresses of time travel anyway.

And I'm sure the Abramsverse's Department of Temporal Investigations wouldn't let Spock do it anyway.

Better make sure nuSpock lives until 2273 to deal with V'ger...

About that...

Spoiler: comics

In the comics, Nero got there first. It's V'Ger who enables Nero to calculate the coordinates at which Spock Prime will arrive. Eventually, V'Ger is unable to deal with Nero's hatred and goes off on its own. It's unclear whether, in this universe, V'Ger will even find Earth at all.

 

[Set Harth]

And there's no indication that the Jellyfish, advanced as it was, could even survive the stresses of time travel anyway.

 

[MarsWeeps]

They changed things that weren't "supposed" to have happened within a specific time line. Like "City on the Edge of Forever", "First Contact", or "Yesterday's Enterprise". Even then, in "Yesterday's Enterprise", it took real convincing from Guinan that things "weren't right" before Picard agreed to send the Enterprise-C back to its time.

In the ST09 universe, Vulcan was destroyed. Trying to go back within the time line of that universe to prevent it wouldn't be "restoring" something or "correcting" something that shouldn't have happend, it would be blatantly manipulating history.

The argument that Guinan used in Yesterday's Enterprise could be used in this timeline also. Hell, they could've had her show up and give nuKirk the same exact lines she used on Picard.

 

[BillJ]

And there's no indication that the Jellyfish, advanced as it was, could even survive the stresses of time travel anyway.

 

[Anticitizen]

And there's no indication that the Jellyfish, advanced as it was, could even survive the stresses of time travel anyway.

I think he was referring to slingshotting around the sun, guys, not going through a black hole portal thing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Yep.

 

[UFO]

I think he was referring to slingshotting around the sun, guys, not going through a black hole portal thing.

Well the Klingon ship certainly shook quite a bit (can't recall if the TOS Enterprise did) but if a spaceship can't stand up to that it probably shouldn't be in space. There is certainly no reason to believe a modern ship capable of high speed couldn't take it (unless stated on screen at some point). Being smaller probably helps structurally too. Granted the egg-beater looks fragile and the name "Jellyfish" clearly doesn't inspire confidence ... .

 

[Set Harth]

It’s 97% water, or something, so how much are they doing? Just give them another 3%, make ‘em water.

 

[BillJ]

I think he was referring to slingshotting around the sun, guys, not going through a black hole portal thing.

It survived passing through a collapsing star, I can't imagine the gravitational stresses of the slingshot maneuver would be any rougher.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well the Klingon ship certainly shook quite a bit (can't recall if the TOS Enterprise did)

Both the Enterprise (in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday") and the Klingon vessel (in ST IV) took very heavy damage from the slingshot maneuver. Indeed, AFAIK the Klingon ship was so beaten up that it crashed.

 

[BillJ]

Well the Klingon ship certainly shook quite a bit (can't recall if the TOS Enterprise did)

Both the Enterprise (in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday") and the Klingon vessel (in ST IV) took very heavy damage from the slingshot maneuver. Indeed, AFAIK the Klingon ship was so beaten up that it crashed.

The Bird-of-Prey crashed because it had no power due to the whale probes transmission.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ That too.

 

[MikeS]

I was thinking, it wouldn't be illogical (no pun intended) for Spock Prime to go to Starfleet and just start telling them everything he knows about his timeline.

It's a good job you didn't intend one as that isn't a pun.