When Did "Tips" (Gratuities) Become So High?

[Knight Templar]

I was watching on television about a place literally trying to force a family to pay a "required" 17% tip after a meal.

When did tips become so much? It seems to me that at one time tips were generally considered to be about 10%. Then 13%. Then 15%. Now 17%.

Why do they keep going up? Why not just pay food service people more money to begin with?

I'm not paying a near 20% surcharge to a server no matter how much my meal is.

 

[thestrangequark]

I've never heard of anyone but a horrible tipper paying 10%. For as long as I can remember (in America), if your service was good 20% was expected, if you were broke you could go down to 15% without being a dick, but any lower than that and yeah, you're being a dick. You must remember, waiters and waitresses usually don't make anything near minimum wage if they get wages at all: tips are what they live off of. Why they're not paid more in the first place is a question for the managers in the industry, but don't dick the waiters because you have a beef with their bosses.

 

[Trekker4747]

I was watching on television about a place literally trying to force a family to pay a "required" 17% tip after a meal.

When did tips become so much? It seems to me that at one time tips were generally considered to be about 10%. Then 13%. Then 15%. Now 17%.

Why do they keep going up? Why not just pay food service people more money to begin with?

I'm not paying a near 20% surcharge to a server no matter how much my meal is.

If servers were payed a more livable wage then the prices on the menu would be a lot higher. So you'd be paying that "20% surcharge" anyway and probably then some.

Tips for as long as I can remember have been around 15%, I personally always tip a minimum of $5 (unless the bill is under $5) or 20% which ever amount is higher. That's my minimum tip which can go up depending on how good the server is (but I don't really ask much) or if she's hot (yoga pants are a good way to get a 50% tip out of me.)

I've got the money to part with, serving is a hard job and is an enormous convenience for me.

Tip your damn server.

 

[thestrangequark]

^This is totally tangential; but when did stretch pants start to be called "yoga pants"? Doesn't anyone remember the 80s? Damned youth misappropriating the bad fashion of my childhood!

 

[Knight Templar]

I've never heard of anyone but a horrible tipper paying 10%. For as long as I can remember (in America), if your service was good 20% was expected, if you were broke you could go down to 15% without being a dick, but any lower than that and yeah, you're being a dick. You must remember, waiters and waitresses usually don't make anything near minimum wage if they get wages at all: tips are what they live off of. Why they're not paid more in the first place is a question for the managers in the industry, but don't dick the waiters because you have a beef with their bosses.

Tough.

As a customer, my obligation should only be to pay for the listed price. When I order, I'm establishing a contract between myself and the service provider.

It is not my job to make up for the wage inequities in the service industries.

And why do servers get special consideration anyway? You could argue that a whole host of people in services are underpaid.

 

[od0_ital]

Its common practice for restaurants to have a 18% (or more) tip policy in place for parties of six or more. So, if the family had two parents & four kids, then yeah, the tip would have been part of the bill, not just a hoped for amount on the part of their waiter or waitress. If they couldn't afford it, they shouldn't have gone out.

And I don't think that's too much when ya consider that minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, and most servers start out at about $2.50 an hour, plus tips.

Where I work now, the employee policy is to tip 15% of the original tab (which is discounted before the final payment). I round up to the next highest dollar, just 'cause I work with most of the folks who serve me food durin' the movies I watch, and EVERYONE knows who I am on site at all the locations here in Austin.

 

[Count Zero]

People in jobs where tipping is part of the deal are exempt from the minimum wage. So, they're often not just underpaid in the sense that others are but they really do get less than minimum wage without tips.
The last time we had this discussion posters who worked as a server also said that it's not uncommon for waiters who often get meagre tips (like 10% or so) to be fired because it is assumed that something's wrong. So, not only do people who don't tip well make the waiters' wages low but they might also get them fired.

 

[thestrangequark]

I've never heard of anyone but a horrible tipper paying 10%. For as long as I can remember (in America), if your service was good 20% was expected, if you were broke you could go down to 15% without being a dick, but any lower than that and yeah, you're being a dick. You must remember, waiters and waitresses usually don't make anything near minimum wage if they get wages at all: tips are what they live off of. Why they're not paid more in the first place is a question for the managers in the industry, but don't dick the waiters because you have a beef with their bosses.

Tough.

As a customer, my obligation should only be to pay for the listed price. When I order, I'm establishing a contract between myself and the service provider.

It is not my job to make up for the wage inequities in the service industries.

And why do servers get special consideration anyway? You could argue that a whole host of people in services are underpaid.

Your legal obligation is to pay the listed price. Your social and moral obligation is to tip your server. It doesn't matter if this social norm is stupid or wrong -- if you feel that strongly about it then lobby to get food servers equal minimum wage. You're not changing anything by not tipping well, you're just being an asshole.

And servers aren't getting any special consideration, again, the tips are used to compensate for the fact that they usually don't even make minimum wage if they make any wages at all.

 

[Trekker4747]

^This is totally tangential; but when did stretch pants start to be called "yoga pants"? Doesn't anyone remember the 80s? Damned youth misappropriating the bad fashion of my childhood!

Eh, it's my understanding "yoga pants" are something different with an entire look, and shape, of their own.

 

[thestrangequark]

^This is totally tangential; but when did stretch pants start to be called "yoga pants"? Doesn't anyone remember the 80s? Damned youth misappropriating the bad fashion of my childhood!

Eh, it's my understanding "yoga pants" are something different with an entire look, and shape, of their own.

Nope. They're just stretch pants. The shape is dependent entirely on the shape of the person who is wearing them.

 

[od0_ital]

Also, this -

http://youtu.be/Z-qV9wVGb38

 

[horatio83]

Why do they keep going up? Why not just pay food service people more money to begin with?

Tips create an incentive for waiters to actually provide some service. In a world without tips all the waiters receive the same wage so they might "freeride" in the group and not provide as much service to the customers as in a world with tips. It's kinda the equivalent of a piece rate in industry.
The obvious problem of tips which you pointed out is that they are non-contractual so customers can "cheat" and not tip the waiters. On the other hand the threat of social stigmatization makes most folks play along.

 

[Misfit Toy]

I've never heard of anyone but a horrible tipper paying 10%. For as long as I can remember (in America), if your service was good 20% was expected, if you were broke you could go down to 15% without being a dick, but any lower than that and yeah, you're being a dick. You must remember, waiters and waitresses usually don't make anything near minimum wage if they get wages at all: tips are what they live off of. Why they're not paid more in the first place is a question for the managers in the industry, but don't dick the waiters because you have a beef with their bosses.

Tough.

As a customer, my obligation should only be to pay for the listed price. When I order, I'm establishing a contract between myself and the service provider.

It is not my job to make up for the wage inequities in the service industries.

And why do servers get special consideration anyway? You could argue that a whole host of people in services are underpaid.

Perhaps servers get special consideration because they are sometimes taxed on non-existent tips. See below (bolding mine).

What about those occasional months when customers aren't feeling very generous and you don't make enough tips to alert the boss? Sorry, but you're not off the tax hook. All tips, even those amounts that fall under the $20 reporting limit, still are taxable. The IRS expects you to own up to them when you fill out your annual tax return.

And if you work for a large restaurant, you may find when you get your W-2 form that you got tips you didn't know about. Restaurants with a large serving staff report a total called "allocated tips" to the IRS. In essence, this is what your boss thinks you should have made in tips.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/tips/20010215a.asp

 

[Roger Wilco]

AFAIK everyone working in hotels/restaurants in Austria does get a decent minimum wage (not minimum wage literally, it's a little more complicated, but it has the same effect - german wiki, I don't even know if there's an English word for that). Google tells me it's ~1200€ a month minimum. If I give more than 10% tip, I'm feeling quite generous.

 

[SchwEnt]

I don't have a gripe against either rotten customers or servers. But I wonder...

When did it become the customer's obligation and responsibility to provide a tip, rather than a courtesy for the server to earn?

It seems that a customer is expected to leave a 20% tip to be a good guy and a 10% tip makes him a dick-- nothing about what the server did or did not do to deserve it.

The onus is on the customer to do right, pay a decent tip, or else be a scumbag customer.

The server? The server deserves a generous tip regardless because of the economics of food service minimum wage yadda yadda yadda.

The argument seems to be--customers have an obligation to pay a decent tip regardless, servers deserve a decent tip because of how they get paid.

Oh I've worked food service myself, I've lived both sides. I know.

But with the obligation of the customer to pay large tips or else, what's the incentive for any server to earn it?

 

[thestrangequark]

^I disagree...I thought it was pretty much a given that if you get shit service you don't need to tip. At least for me, everything I said applies to servers who give quality service.

 

[doubleohfive]

Also, this -

http://youtu.be/Z-qV9wVGb38

I was just about to post that!



On topic: I've known many waiters and waitresses in my time. My brother is a waiter. Lots of friends too, throughout the years. Seeing how hard they work and how seriously they take their jobs, I've always, always made sure to be generous with my tip for them. And I've applied that to pretty much every waiter and waitress since. It would take a whole hell of a lot of bad service to even get me to consider not tipping at least 20%.

Anyone else who doesn't tip properly - at least 20% in this economy - as just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.

Stop being an asshole.

 

[Count Zero]

AFAIK everyone working in hotels/restaurants in Austria does get a decent minimum wage (not minimum wage literally, it's a little more complicated, but it has the same effect - german wiki, I don't even know if there's an English word for that). Google tells me it's ~1200€ a month minimum. If I give more than 10% tip, I'm feeling quite generous.

Well, I figured we were talking about the US. Tipping rules and etiquette differ wildly from country to country. I usually give between 10 and 20% but 10% is the standard here. On the other hand, we don't have a minimum wage and people in service industries often get paid dismally.

 

[Shaytan]

Those tips discussions always confuse me. Over here, the service is included in the bill (15%). You can leave some money to the waiter as a thank you (a few cents for a drink a little more for a meal, 1 to 5 euros) but if you don't, it's not really a problem.

 

[Disruptor]

Don't eat out.

I don't.

Can't afford to.

Funny how my wages haven't gone up 5%. "Hey, boss, in this economy, I expect 5% more an hour."

And fast food...you know they spit in that stuff (or worse), even if you are polite, because they hate themselves for working at Burger King for minimum wage when they really wanted to be working at the snobby-restaurant across town that pays $2.50 an hour and is probably owned by some rich assholes.

Happy eating, kids.