DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[Trekker4747]

Batman: Good issue, the "Night of Owls" thing is picking up now which is cool, and I liked the "call to the Batfamily." Though I didn't like the art change about mid-way through when Bruce puts on the prototype Iron Man suit from the movie, that seemed out of nowhere. The art there seemed a touch rougher.

But the story -for me- has picked back up. I likely won't pick-up the other Bat-books to read the whole Night of Owls arc (probably will if it goes to a trade) but it looks interesting.

Catwoman: This book is losing steam for me, mostly because of the art change which I really don't care-for (more particular the coloring of it.)

On the "Night of the Owls" thing, it looks like it's going to span all of the Batman titles which I creates a continuity blackhole in my head as I'm not sure how all of the Bat-books overlap one another, especially since at times they seem to contradict one another.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

DC doesn't feel real to me without 70 years of history to prop it up.

Psst - it's not real.

I've been reading DC off and on for about fifty of its seventy years. I'm not missing the (continually revised, frequently contradicted, repeatedly rebooted) faux "history" even a smidgeon. Right now the current Superman is probably my favorite version since I was about seven years old, much as I liked Byrne's version in it's early years. Honestly, he and the people around him just "feel more real."

 

[Professor Zoom]

Justice League #8: Ugh, that's it. I'm done. This book is just stupid. The characters are all being written as incredibly unlikable, and I just don't give a crap.

Yeah. I feel the same way. I miss Morrison's League. I miss the Bwah Ha Ha years. This, I won't miss when it's gone.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Justice League just baffles me. It was hyped up to be THE book of the New 52, with Johns and Lee working together for the first time, with all the major characters of the DCU. It is considered the flagship book of the New 52 as well, one of the major selling points. What has been extremely disappointing is Johns writing of the characters as nothing more than un-likeable caricatures of each other, even Aquaman who he writes near perfectly in the solo book, is written different in Justice League. The origin story was bizarre in the way it was structured and written as well. At least Jim Lee was bringing it...his art was pretty fantastic. Can't say the same for Johns writing. I haven't been this disappointed by a book in a long time that I was highly anticipating at first.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm surprised we haven't heard more of this yet given what went down after the initial announcement of the New 52 and all the creator problems. Chris Roberson will be missed at least to me. He took over JMS's Superman run and actually improved it somewhat IMO. I enjoyed the second half of it. He also wrote recently the Legion/Star Trek crossover. He was my pick to take over Legion of Superheroes from Paul Levitz, but I guess that won't happen now. He's critical of Marvel as well...I wonder if this means he'll end up in IDW?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/04/19/chris-roberson-quits-dc-comics/

 

[The Lensman]

Justice League just baffles me. It was hyped up to be THE book of the New 52, with Johns and Lee working together for the first time, with all the major characters of the DCU. It is considered the flagship book of the New 52 as well, one of the major selling points. What has been extremely disappointing is Johns writing of the characters as nothing more than un-likeable caricatures of each other, even Aquaman who he writes near perfectly in the solo book, is written different in Justice League. The origin story was bizarre in the way it was structured and written as well. At least Jim Lee was bringing it...his art was pretty fantastic. Can't say the same for Johns writing. I haven't been this disappointed by a book in a long time that I was highly anticipating at first.

Interesting. I've read similar claims about GL. Is JLA intended to be the gateway by which new readers jump into the greater DCU? Sorta "start here.....then get better characterization in the solo books." It almost sounds like JLA is "sorta" in the same continuity, character wise, but not exactly.

As a long time JSA fan (since the 70's when I had my first run in with them) I'm very interested in the new Earth-2 book. I'm that rare JSA fan that has long felt it was time to cut their ties to WW2. After a certain point, the age thing just doesn't work....especially when certain artists drew them pretty much like seniors.

Jay, Alan and Ted, the retconned "core" of the team all had perfectly good excuses to be presented as young....the trick came in the desire to have them with their original loves. Except that these weren't love interests with the staying power or "iconic-ness" of a Lois Lane.

Even tied to WW2, they could've had the original ladies pass on, and have the guys move on, Highlander style. And then you just sort of rarely mention their WW2 adventures.

Or, you just have them as always about ten years older than the JLA, on a sliding timescale. I mean, they weren't The Invaders.....they didn't actually fight in either theater of war....they just fought spies and saboteurs here in the states for the most part, with the occasional circus appearance for War Bond Drives.

IMO, they just seem to be in a better place than The Invaders to divorce from WW2.

So now that they're being updated to contemporaries of the JLA, at least from what I've read so far, I'm very interested to see what they do with these characters and how they make them fresh.

My biggest dilemma is buy it off the stands, or wait for the trade. This is probably the first book in the last year that I'm actually wanting to read as it comes out.




Since we're on the subject of trades.....any recommendations of nu52 trades? More than likely I'll pick up Morrison's Action run, as I loved his All Star Superman. But beyond that, nothing really jumps out at me.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Trades don't start coming out until I believe late next month, early June. I'd check out the trades to Snyder's Batman, Morrison's Action Comics, Azzarello's Wonder Woman, Johns Aquaman (it actually is a good book), some of the other titles that others have praised in the thread like Flash, Batwoman, etc.

Would I consider Justice League a "gateway book"? No not at all. Nothing in the origin arc really ties in to the other books since Justice League takes place five years in the past of the New 52.

 

[The Lensman]

Trades don't start coming out until I believe late next month, early June. I'd check out the trades to Snyder's Batman, Morrison's Action Comics, Azzarello's Wonder Woman, Johns Aquaman (it actually is a good book), some of the other titles that others have praised in the thread like Flash, Batwoman, etc.

Would I consider Justice League a "gateway book"? No not at all. Nothing in the origin arc really ties in to the other books since Justice League takes place five years in the past of the New 52.

Thanks for the suggestions Admiral.

In regards to JLA, I think it's lack of hard ties to the other books would make it the gateway book, especially with it being in a different time frame.

So a noob could come onto JLA, get all the big name heroes, and if they wanted a deeper exploration of those characters, go to the solo books. The characters themselves would also be more thought out in terms of how they act etc.

I generally remember that back in the old days, characters acted the same regardless of where they appeared. But in this newer, shorter attention span era, you have to maybe hook them with a slightly different approach in one book.

From what I understand, Hal is an arrogant ass in JLA, but not in GL. Do arrogant assholes work better to draw in noobs? Maybe.

How cohesive is the new universe presented? Is it fairly tight, or are they going for something looser so as not to have to worry about crazy continuity stuff? If so the latter, that might explain the character difference.

 

[Admiral_Young]

How cohesive is the New 52? I think that'd be one of the biggest criticisms of the relaunch. Mostly to do with the fact that some of the books have continuity carried over from the DCU, mainly Batman and Green Lantern's continuities carried over. I'd say that the overall structure of the New 52 is very loose. Some in the thread may disagree with me knowing my vocal issues on the subject. There really isn't one particular common link yet as the writers are still really building and crafting the new continuity.

 

[Guy Gardener]

1-6 of JLA was in the past.

7-the next reboot is set in the present.

 

[The Lensman]

some of the books have continuity carried over from the DCU, mainly Batman and Green Lantern's continuities carried over.

So pretty much like Teen Titans after the original Crisis, IIRC. Because it was their best selling book, they didn't want to lose it to complete "from day one" reboot. Which led to the mess of the early days and people trying to figure out what was in and what was out.

Over the years, the current regime has basically done updates on all the big hits of their teenage years, (Great Darkness Saga, Crisis, 70's era JLA lineup, etc) and they've even recreated their own post reboot timeline cluster fuck. LOL!

Being out of comics for a year has helped me mellow on it all, and having purchased my share of Golden Age Archive editions, I'm not as averse as I used to be of just having each hero in his own world and being "the main hero".

I realize I'm in the minority on that one though.

Probably my favorite book in recent times, and one I'd still pick up if it weren't in limbo, is Paul Grists "Jack Staff". It's an entire comic universe in one book, with multiple threads and characters.....but the catch is every time it switches characters, it's like your reading that characters chapter in an anthology book, complete with logo and catch phrase.

It had a cool sense of both modern comics and comics of yore, plus it was just plain FUN. Something most mainstream comics aren't.

 

[Turtletrekker]

An interesting rumor from Bleeding Cool...

An excerpt...

I understand that for one month all the original new 52 books will be numbered #0 instead of being #13. And that their #13s will run in October instead.

That the zero issues will reveal stuff that happened before issue #1. Year Ones, flashbacks, origins.

 

[Mr Light]

Ugh, I hate # 0 s and # .1 s and # -1 s it just screws up the ordering of things

 

[Guy Gardener]

Those assholes.

It's advertising for the new trade paperbacks.

You're not going to buy the back issues, because you're comfortable with the decisions which you have made, so you're not going to buy the trades either, but if you get sucked into this Zero issue bullshit cross over, suddenly you're forced... TRICKED into liking something new and you are buying BOTH the trades and the back issues.

The zero issues.

Either sell them for 25 cents each or spray the internet with free digital copies.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[ToddKent]

some of the books have continuity carried over from the DCU, mainly Batman and Green Lantern's continuities carried over.

So pretty much like Teen Titans after the original Crisis, IIRC. Because it was their best selling book, they didn't want to lose it to complete "from day one" reboot. Which led to the mess of the early days and people trying to figure out what was in and what was out.

By not rebooting Batman & GL and yet rebooting everything else, yes, they are essentially making the exact same mistake they made before that caused the continuity "problems" that the reboot was supposed to get rid of.

Anyhoo, count me in as someone who is disappointed in JLA. There was almost no actual story in the first 6 issues.

And I have a question for people reading the regular Wonder Woman title. Is she as horribly written and cliche there as she is in JLA? I always prefered "Sophisticated Ambassador Wonder Woman" to "Conan Wonder Woman."

 

[Professor Zoom]

And I have a question for people reading the regular Wonder Woman title. Is she as horribly written and cliche there as she is in JLA? I always prefered "Sophisticated Ambassador Wonder Woman" to "Conan Wonder Woman."

Wonder Woman's solo book is WAAAAY more interesting than JLA. It's more like Urban Fantasy/Horror. Worth checking out.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

How cohesive is the New 52? ...I'd say that the overall structure of the New 52 is very loose.

I have no idea, really, but "loose" seems plausible. The Superman titles seem to track reasonably well, but I don't pay enough attention to the details to be sure. I lost track of Superboy about three issues ago and haven't decided whether to try to catch up. I'm going to read the last three Green Lantern issues this weekend.

 

[Unicron]

By not rebooting Batman & GL and yet rebooting everything else, yes, they are essentially making the exact same mistake they made before that caused the continuity "problems" that the reboot was supposed to get rid of.

Isn't comic continuity fun? I'm working on collecting IDW's UK trades now for the original Transformers run, and those generally avoided continuity problems. They're more amusing from the perspective of the timing issue (the UK issues were published weekly whereas the American issues were only published monthly, and thus the Marvel UK branch wound up creating a lot of original filler material between American ports).

 

[Derishton]

I kinda liked Justice League 8: I didn't pick up on the Booster Gold vibe because Green Arrow seemed like he was channelling his counterpart for the animated Brave and the Bold series. I thought the two-page "where was the JLA during Night of Owls and the Vampire/Gotham invasion" was done just about right.

I love the way Wonder Woman just keeps twisting around. It feels like a book that reads incredibly well now, plenty of cliff-hangers, but is going to read terrific in trade, too. That's rare these days.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Bleeding Cool updates about the Zero Issues and includes something rather interesting...

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/04/20/so-else-do-know-about-september-dc-zero-issues/

If Keith Griffin returns to Legion of Superheroes I'll be checking it out.