Did Starfleet discontinue building Galaxy-class?

[Methos]

The Galaxy-class was a starship built for a different time. A time when there was no Borg, no Dominion, the Romulans were back in hiding, the Klingons were our new friends, the Ferengi and Cardassians little more than an annoyance. A time when it was thought Pax Federationica would last forever and Starfleet could handle whatever was thrown at it. A time when it was thought safe to include whole families on starships.

In short, they were 24'th century equivalents of 1960's muscle cars. Sleek, stylish, made you feel good riding it...and totally unprepared for the 1970's.

Frankly, by the time the Dominion War was over, I would seriously question the sanity of Starfleet Command if they didn't decide to cut their losses and phase out the Galaxy-class.

i actually believe the opposite...

i agree that the Galaxy class ships weren't prepared for the Dominion / Borg / whatever wars... but by the time the wars were over, when exploration was back on the menu, i'd say having families on ships like the Galaxy class style is a definite bonus for the federation...

if i'm serving in Starfleet, and they give me the option to go on a galaxy-esque class ship, or a normal no families allowed ship... hell, i'd take the family style ship any day... having families along on a vessel that could take you years, perhaps more, away from your family and out into the far reaches of the galaxy is a definite bonus for moral, experience, it would push the serving crew members with families on board to work and focus on the ships survival in a combat situation... i'm not saying there aren't dangers involved, of course there are, but if the option is there, i'd say the benefits far outway the drawbacks...

M

 

[Knight Templar]

I doubt being able to have a family member aboard a starship would ever make any real difference. After all, the Enterprise was never far away from civilization for any pronounced length of time.

Families aboard ship was yet another idea in modern Star Trek that "sounded good" but was ultimately ridiculous and pointless.

 

[Gagarin]

^I think that's because Pax Federationica ended. Well into S1 Enterprise was dragged into local space problems.

 

[Knight Templar]

Anyone ever wondered if the times we saw the Enterprise-D perform very poorly in ship to ship combat had more to do with the person commanding it than the design and capabilities of the ship itself?

Riker was commanding the Enterprise on at least three occasions off hand when it got its butt kicked (Rascals, Darmok, and of course Generations).

Perhaps Riker was simply a poor tactical commander

 

[C.E. Evans]

Or perhaps those were simply times when the Enterprise simply encountered someone with comparable weapons who could actually stand toe-to-toe with any Federation starship.

 

[starburst]

Unimaginative writing giving the impression that Riker was subpar as a CO in comparison to Picard, but then how many times through its run did we see the E go into a full on battle during TNG.

They missed a chance to show off a Galaxy class in Generations by only showing her return fire the once, in my mind she should have been able to inflict some serious damage with a few phaser barrages and a volley of Photon torpedoes.

If they had thrown in a line about the BoP having more powerful shields taken from a more modern Klingon vessel I could have bought it, Riker was no fool as shown with some clever, if not extremely risky, maneuvers during Insurrection.

 

[david lowbridge]

it should be noted that the Saratoga (Miranda) and the Vico (oberth) both had families onboard. However the later was a starfleet vessel on loan to civilians. But it does show that in the 24th century Starfleet might consider families to be on all ships and made provisions for them. This appears to disappear by the Intrepid completely, so whether or not these are exceptions (including the Enterprise) we don't know. But there are interesting side notes to consider.

 

[anh165]

I think the Galaxy class was more than enough armed to *defend* herself. It's the nature of the story writers to put the Enterprise into situations where the odds are stacked against her.

 

[Knight Templar]

Or perhaps those were simply times when the Enterprise simply encountered someone with comparable weapons who could actually stand toe-to-toe with any Federation starship.

Oh sure. Enterprise commanded by Riker gets owned by old Klingon Birds of Prey in both "Rascals" and "Generations".

 

[david lowbridge]

Or perhaps those were simply times when the Enterprise simply encountered someone with comparable weapons who could actually stand toe-to-toe with any Federation starship.

Oh sure. Enterprise commanded by Riker gets owned by old Klingon Birds of Prey in both "Rascals" and "Generations".

to be far to Riker in Generations, the BoP had got the shield frequencies (though why they didn't change the freq I have no idea - Janeway did it in equinox) and tactically they had to leave orbit of the planet, which led to a dangerous position for them for a while. They then did defeat the BoP, it was just a lucky shot that caused the warp core breach (that and the Producers felt the Galaxy class was not a "movie" ship).

However there is no excusses for the battle in Rascals.

 

[Timo]

...Other than the fact that two Klingon capital ships proved to be a match for a (surprised) Starfleet capital ship?

What is so odd or objectionable about that scenario? "Rascals" was a reuse of the footage from "Yesterday's Enterprise", where top-of-the-line large Klingon battleships defeated a top-of-the-line large Starfleet battleship. We see the same ponderous moves, the same massive size of the enemy vessels. What possible justification or even incentive should we have for claiming that the E-D underperformed in that situation?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[david lowbridge]

...Other than the fact that two Klingon capital ships proved to be a match for a (surprised) Starfleet capital ship?

What is so odd or objectionable about that scenario? "Rascals" was a reuse of the footage from "Yesterday's Enterprise", where top-of-the-line large Klingon battleships defeated a top-of-the-line large Starfleet battleship. We see the same ponderous moves, the same massive size of the enemy vessels. What possible justification or even incentive should we have for claiming that the E-D underperformed in that situation?

Timo Saloniemi

i cant remember the episode that well (though I have some scenes in my head when I think of the episode), but my problem is not with the E-D, but riker and his 1000 crew giving up so easily. How many ferengi beamed over to take control of the ship? Why did no security officers really fight back? Why did Riker not raise the shields and instead just locked out the computer? Anyway a bad workman always blames his tools.

 

[Santaman]

^^ thats the trouble with a show, no matter the "facts" or "specs" writers will put a ship or person in a certain situation no matter how or what just to entertain yer average people, not taking in account a bunch of trek tech posters...

So I guess you need to just forget everything you see in the series and just look at the ship itself.

 

[MacLeod]

Or perhaps those were simply times when the Enterprise simply encountered someone with comparable weapons who could actually stand toe-to-toe with any Federation starship.

Oh sure. Enterprise commanded by Riker gets owned by old Klingon Birds of Prey in both "Rascals" and "Generations".

to be far to Riker in Generations, the BoP had got the shield frequencies (though why they didn't change the freq I have no idea - Janeway did it in equinox) and tactically they had to leave orbit of the planet, which led to a dangerous position for them for a while. They then did defeat the BoP, it was just a lucky shot that caused the warp core breach (that and the Producers felt the Galaxy class was not a "movie" ship).

However there is no excusses for the battle in Rascals.

Well I would agree that Riker should have modulated the shield frequecy, but leaving that aside. A fully spread of photon's and firing all phasers should have at least taken down the BoP shields.

The simple fact is they wanted to get rid of the Ent-D, which is fair enough but perhaps they should have used say a Vor'Cha class instead of a BoP.

 

[Knight Templar]

Oh sure. Enterprise commanded by Riker gets owned by old Klingon Birds of Prey in both "Rascals" and "Generations".

to be far to Riker in Generations, the BoP had got the shield frequencies (though why they didn't change the freq I have no idea - Janeway did it in equinox) and tactically they had to leave orbit of the planet, which led to a dangerous position for them for a while. They then did defeat the BoP, it was just a lucky shot that caused the warp core breach (that and the Producers felt the Galaxy class was not a "movie" ship).

However there is no excusses for the battle in Rascals.

Well I would agree that Riker should have modulated the shield frequecy, but leaving that aside. A fully spread of photon's and firing all phasers should have at least taken down the BoP shields.

The simple fact is they wanted to get rid of the Ent-D, which is fair enough but perhaps they should have used say a Vor'Cha class instead of a BoP.

My understanding from articles on the making of Generations that after spending the money on the crash of the saucer and a huge amount on stellar cartography (which they did to make Zimmerman happy) was that they lacked the money for a movie quality model of another Klingon ship and by using the Bird of Prey model they were able to use the explosion of the Bird of Prey from The Undiscovered Country.

 

[Timo]

...Plus, if they were going to give surprise victory to the Klingons anyway, why not go the whole nine yards and make it maximally surprising? The Klingons triumphed because they had Soran's supertech on their side, and the movie was all about Soran's supertech making it possible for this lone individual to pursue his obsession while effortlessly snuffing out millions of lives. The balance was there in the very story structure for David to defeat Goliath.

my problem is not with the E-D, but riker and his 1000 crew giving up so easily

A valid concern... Although I'd guess it's inherent with flying a starship loaded with potential hostages. Possibly this is reason enough to put the Galaxy class (and other hostage-loaded designs) in future production disfavor, even if the actual space battle with the two Klingon ships did not necessitate such a move?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

Or perhaps those were simply times when the Enterprise simply encountered someone with comparable weapons who could actually stand toe-to-toe with any Federation starship.

Oh sure. Enterprise commanded by Riker gets owned by old Klingon Birds of Prey in both "Rascals" and "Generations".

Is there anything that says those Klingons ships can't own a Galaxy-class starship? I also don't think the age of a particular design matters much since some ships can be upgraded with new systems, including more potent weapon systems. In fact, I'm more inclined to believe that's what Klingons do with their vessels (rather than build lots of new designs like the Federation does).

 

[Timo]

Is there anything that says those Klingons ships can't own a Galaxy-class starship?

In Generations, there is: the Klingons themselves are convinced that their ship will lose. In "Rascals", a different, larger ship type is apparently involved, though. And both the Trek stories do their best to establish multiple different classes of Birds of Prey, by specifically referring to a class designation (D-12 in ST:GEN, B'Rel in "Rascals") where a simple "Klingon BoP" should suffice if only one type existed.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

Is there anything that says those Klingons ships can't own a Galaxy-class starship?

In Generations, there is: the Klingons themselves are convinced that their ship will lose.

So a D12-class Bird of Prey has to resort to guile to take down a Galaxy-class rather than in a one-on-one fight. I don't see how the Enterprise could have prevented that under the circumstances.

In "Rascals", a different, larger ship type is apparently involved, though. And both the Trek stories do their best to establish multiple different classes of Birds of Prey, by specifically referring to a class designation (D-12 in ST:GEN, B'Rel in "Rascals") where a simple "Klingon BoP" should suffice if only one type existed.

So it's not necessarily a given that a Galaxy-class is invincible to Klingon ships.

 

[david lowbridge]

So it's not necessarily a given that a Galaxy-class is invincible to Klingon ships.

Agreed, remembering that the USS Farragut was destroyed by the Klingons during the Federation - Klingon war. Although this was a Nebula class ship, it seems the two classes were probably developed together (and thus similar weapons / shield capabilities) and the Nebula was going in knowing it was a war situation. It does give evidence that the klingon ships are formidable.