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Who trekked closer to the AQ?

Who made it closer to home?

  • Kim?

    Votes: 8 66.7%
  • Janeway?

    Votes: 4 33.3%

  • Total voters
    12

Guy Gardener

Fleet Admiral
Admiral
In Prime Factors Kim followed a girl onto a transporter pad and stepped off 40 thousand light years later... Meanwhile in seven years of hell, Kathryn managed to forge a trail of spit and blood from Caretakers array to an exploding Borg Transwarp Hub, which was about 40 ly long.

So, in your gut.

Who made it a step closer to Earth, Kathy or Kimmy?

(Kathryn only made it to the transwarp hub under her own power. Any help she solicited or was gifted by the Admiral after that completely voided gold stars her personal accomplishments warranted.)
 
Everyone in the AQ wants to work on Earth.

Best of the best of the best.

The natives would be displaced.

Sure there's menial labour, but even then every one in the AQ wants those jobs too.

Protecting San franscicans against more useful immigrants, is against Federation policy according to what we saw with the kesperit and some of the stuff with Bajor about class systems...

Sigh.

Humanity fell, lost their homeworld and they haven't even noticed.

I don't think many Americans would live be allowed to live in America any more unless they were exceptional, or even on Earth if they couldn't be useful to the machine that runs the empire (Got audio books of Foundation novels recently which is all about Trantor being a perfect poitical machine 40 billion individuals strong.).
 
Everyone in the AQ wants to work on Earth.

Best of the best of the best.

The natives would be displaced.

Sure there's menial labour, but even then every one in the AQ wants those jobs too.

Protecting San franscicans against more useful immigrants, is against Federation policy according to what we saw with the kesperit and some of the stuff with Bajor about class systems...

Sigh.

Humanity fell, lost their homeworld and they haven't even noticed.

I don't think many Americans would live be allowed to live in America any more unless they were exceptional, or even on Earth if they couldn't be useful to the machine that runs the empire (Got audio books of Foundation novels recently which is all about Trantor being a perfect poitical machine 40 billion individuals strong.).

How much population was wiped out in WWIII again? And then there's the weather making powers that presumably have transformed most of earth into arable land people want to live on. (Though what does that do to the animals dependent on inhospitable ecosystems?) So there's a lot more land that people can and wish to live on and a lot less people.. in those scenes of New Orleans it seemed human dominated. Trek should have shown us cities and life on earth a bit more.

We got..

Gumbo, everything looks the same as now.

French pastoral luddites.

Harry Kim was back in SF (I think) with Libby, that did look futuristic but it wasn't exactly bustling.

I think the most bustle we got was in Enterprise when Phlox and Hoshi were leaving the bar or Chinese place.
 
Humans were confined to the solar system by Vulcan edict in Enterprise.

You know except for the Boomer fleet.

And terra Nova.

Acording to Riker, in 2063, there were just 60 million humans left.

Later Colonel Green shows up and purges everyone with radioactive damage or other congenital issues.

Remember holograms were used as a slave class, so just because there appeared to be a lot of humans in those civilian areas, it could have just been "a look" for the case tourism.
 
Just on Earth.

but I'm assuming that if your grades dip below an A plus, they ship you off world to a colony, unless you have a unique skill the other exceptional human beings are incapable of replicating.

Which explains Joseph Sisko in a world with no money and no individual property rights.

Picards who do not make wine, and are open to tours, would have a hard time justifying their right to live on Earth.
 
I think something is being overlooked. Yes, Harry used the Sikarian trajector to visit Alastria, a planet 40,000 light years from Sikaris. However, we don't know in which direction from Sikaris it was. It was never stated that Harry's jump actually took him closer to Earth, just that if it could take him that distance in whatever direction, Voyager could use it to get an equivalent distance closer to Earth. Assuming Alastria was in the Milky Way's stellar disk at all, rather than a rogue star out in the halo, then judging from Sikaris's position on the outer rim of the Delta Quadrant, with 40 kly being about 80 percent of the disk's radius, I'd say Alastria could've been anywhere within about a 140-degree arc from Sikaris. Now, if we go by Star Trek Star Charts' assumption that the Federation is roughly 500 ly in diameter, then from 70,000 ly away it would subtend about 0.4 degrees. That means that the odds that Alastria was in the direction of the Federation would be 0.4/140 = about 1 in 350 (and that's treating the z-axis component as negligible; since the disk is about 1000 ly thick, it might be more like 1 in 700).

Even if we assume that, by some extraordinary fluke, Alastria was in exactly the same direction from Sikaris as the Federation and/or the Borg transwarp hub, let's consider how far Voyager travelled. In addition to its normal travels, it made jumps of 9500 ly courtesy of Kes, 300 ly courtesy of Arturis's slipstream, 2500 ly through the Malon vortex, 10,000 ly by slipstream, 20,000 ly by Borg transwarp, over 200 ly through the Vaadwaur corridors, and an unspecified distance equivalent to 3 years' travel through the graviton catapult in "The Voyager Conspiracy." So that's 42,500 ly of shortcuts plus 10 years' worth (7 seasons plus the catapult) of normal warp travel. If we go by their initial assessment from "Caretaker" that 70,000 ly would take them at least 75 years to cover without shortcuts, that makes for an average of 933 ly/y, so that would bring the likely total to around 51,800 ly. (Star Charts gives a more conservative estimate of 46,028 ly.)

So unless a) Alastria just happened to be in exactly the right direction and either b) Kim and his Sikarian friend hugely rounded down the trajector's distance or c) Voyager's course was considerably more convoluted than shown, I'd say it's pretty unambiguous that Kim did not travel closer to Earth than Voyager had as of "Endgame."
 
Interesting.

Although the pickle is to travel 40k ly in a straight line without crossing into another quadrant or leaving the galaxy, which I would call at most 35 degrees if just count the spiral arms, and if you consider the presence of the galactic core, even without bringing the great barrier into play, that knocks 10 degrees off as well... but as you say these "Rogue stars" off the spiral arms are anomalies, which is like saying that one side of America to the other is 9.3 thousand miles long if you count Hawaii, rather than 6 thousand miles long if you just count the clump that is the other 49 states.

But then off in the boondocks is most likely were the Sikarians could keep ungarrisoned resort worlds away from the clustering of all the other class M inhabited worlds.. Which makes it more likely that they would be planting flags on worlds away from the spiral arms avoiding all the militerized cultures building empires over the top of their nieghbours.

"Sigh"
 
^Sure, it could've been somewhere other than the stellar disk; but that would make it even less likely to be in the same direction as the Federation. And as you say, the dialogue did imply (though not absolutely verify) that Alastria was in the Delta Quadrant. (Gath said the trajector let them travel to "all the planets in this quadrant," but really, what are the odds that the Sikarians define the galaxy's quadrants the same way the Federation does, with a radius passing through Sol as the basic reference? At the very least, he could've been speaking approximately, the same way characters in DS9 and VGR used "Alpha Quadrant" to refer to the region of known space that spans both Alpha and Beta.)
 
once the the universal translator understands how they measures space, translating math must be easier than translating language.
 
The EMH made it the closest. Hands down. He may be a toaster, but he is a sentient toaster.

Actually, if you count alternate realities Kim made it home in "Non Sequitur" and "Timeless", the second time with Chakotay.

I'd say Kim, given the two choices above.
 
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First, yes he did.

Second, no he isn't.

Third, it's a two person race and he's not in it.

Fourth they all got home in Futures End, so it doesn't matter if the doctor got back to earth a few years later, again, becuase kim made it home first in Non Sequitor also.
 
But yeah, the EMH is sentient... that was discussed in Author, Author and they decided that he was. Or at least he had the same status as Data did.

But yeah, back to the discussion, Harry Kim's "Non Sequitur" makes him the winner.
 
No, they decided that they didn't want to decide, because then they would have to stop using holograms as slaves.

ARBITRATOR: We're exploring new territory today so it is fitting that this hearing is being held at Pathfinder. The Doctor exhibits many of the traits we associate with a person. Intelligence, creativity, ambition, even fallibility, but are these traits real or is the Doctor merely programmed to simulate them? To be honest, I don't know. Eventually we will have to decide because the issue of holographic rights isn't going to go away, but at this time, I am not prepared to rule that the Doctor is a person under the law. However, it is obvious he is no ordinary hologram and while I can't say with certainty that he is a person I am willing to extend the legal definition of artist to include the Doctor. I therefore rule that he has the right to control his work and I'm ordering all copies of his holo-novels to be recalled immediately.
Imagine giving every hologram 40 acres and a mule?

It would bankrupt the Federation.
 
They didn't really decide with Data either... That's what I meant. They decided that Data was no ordinary android, but didn't want to make a blanket statement. In that case, the question was more over whether Data had a soul.

A little different, yes... but he was "no ordinary hologram" as Data was "no ordinary android"
 
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