Preferred Mirror Universe?

[Emperor Norton]

I prefer the "canon" version, because it's thematically linked to Mirror Mirror and Spock's actions. I hated in Dark Mirror that they basically swept him under the rug. The point of the episode was that a man can change the present... only well, apparently, he can't. Alas.

In the canon version, on the other hand, Spock's actions did change the future... for the worse, in true Mirror Universe's style. So, very apt. Also, the fact that Terrans got to taste their own medicine was the only way to eventually redeem them, which makes for an interesting narrative arc.

Dark Mirror was fun to read, but it didn't have any resonance beyond the gimmick.

Dark Mirror didn't sweep him under the rug, though. They had him continue and profess reforms only to be killed after being framed by Kirk.

My problem with the Terran collapse version of things is that it basically said the Empire collapsed because of democracy. That that very thing which Kirk was espousing as something to better this universe, and save their nation, actually lead it to total collapse. That, and the Terran Empire is fun. Who wants to see it go, and get replaced with a who gives a fudge menagerie of people. I don't much care about civilian Sisko, or whatever he was. I care about Captain Sisko, commander of the captured station Deep Space 9, with a sash around his waist and some battle scars from the conquest of Cardassia Prime. That's what I think is awesome.

Eh. I mean, you can only do "Evil Universe!" stuff for so long; afterwards, it just becomes boring, as DS9 proved.

But they didn't do the Evil Universe thing much. DS9 never had any version where the Terran Empire was still around; there's was the version where it collapsed, and the Terrans were now rebels trying to kick the Cardi-Klingon alliance out. We only had two episodes that involved the Terran Empire, and they were amazingly fun.

 

[Sci]

My problem with the Terran collapse version of things is that it basically said the Empire collapsed because of democracy.

Not if you read The Sorrows of Empire and Rise Like Lions.

Eh. I mean, you can only do "Evil Universe!" stuff for so long; afterwards, it just becomes boring, as DS9 proved.

But they didn't do the Evil Universe thing much. DS9 never had any version where the Terran Empire was still around; there's was the version where it collapsed, and the Terrans were now rebels trying to kick the Cardi-Klingon alliance out.

Yeah, and think how boring and tiresome the Evil-With-A-Capital-E counterparts to Kira, Worf, and Garak were!

We only had two episodes that involved the Terran Empire, and they were amazingly fun.

Three, actually ("Mirror, Mirror;" "In A Mirror, Darkly, Part I;" and "In A Mirror, Darkly, Part II"). And good riddance, because doing an Eeeevil version of Our Heroes just gets boring after a while. Hell, for IAMD2, they had to inject the additional spectacle of the re-created U.S.S. Defiant to keep it interesting.

 

[Takeru]

The canon one makes more sense logically, if you will, where Spock would make that change and humans would get the short end of the stick.

I don't think it makes more sense, Spock was just one guy, it's much more likely that he failed in his attempt to change the empire.

 

[F. King Daniel]

If only the Terran Empire continued, we could have had an awesome interdimensional conflict like Janeway and Voyager vs. their "Living Witness" style counterparts.

 

[captcalhoun]

The canon one makes more sense logically, if you will, where Spock would make that change and humans would get the short end of the stick.

I don't think it makes more sense, Spock was just one guy, it's much more likely that he failed in his attempt to change the empire.

not when he had the Tantalus Device at his disposal and he could kill off Kirk, take control of the Enterprise, work his way up the Fleet, then seize the Throne and scare the living shit outta people by making his enemies 'disappear' with no trace.

which is an extremely condensed version of what he does in the novel Sorrows of Empire.

All it takes to change the course of history is the will of a single individual.

 

[BillJ]

All it takes to change the course of history is the will of a single individual.

And a badass machine that makes your enemies disappear!

 

[Sci]

The canon one makes more sense logically, if you will, where Spock would make that change and humans would get the short end of the stick.

I don't think it makes more sense, Spock was just one guy, it's much more likely that he failed in his attempt to change the empire.

not when he had the Tantalus Device at his disposal and he could kill off Kirk, take control of the Enterprise, work his way up the Fleet, then seize the Throne and scare the living shit outta people by making his enemies 'disappear' with no trace.

which is an extremely condensed version of what he does in the novel Sorrows of Empire.

All it takes to change the course of history is the will of a single individual.

Well, no. Even in The Sorrows of Empire, Spock had to cultivate and rely upon the goodwill of his allies in order to gain power.

Which is actually part of the point of the novel, after all -- that the Tantalus Device was the ultimate embodiment of the imperial impulse, the urge to subordinate others to the will of one man by fear, and that Spock was simultaneously the logical conclusion of that way of life, bringing about the imperial society's destruction, yet was paradoxically also attempting to show the Empire, and the galaxy at large, that another way of life was possible:

"Moments ago, I forced our government to renounce terror and preemptive violence as instruments of statecraft; I must now relinquish them as tools of politics."

 

[USS Excelsior]

The canon version was effed up with DS9icities, and should have continued with an empire if smaller or with an internal struggle going on to change it's ways as a continuation of Spock's work.

 

[captcalhoun]

I don't think it makes more sense, Spock was just one guy, it's much more likely that he failed in his attempt to change the empire.

not when he had the Tantalus Device at his disposal and he could kill off Kirk, take control of the Enterprise, work his way up the Fleet, then seize the Throne and scare the living shit outta people by making his enemies 'disappear' with no trace.

which is an extremely condensed version of what he does in the novel Sorrows of Empire.

All it takes to change the course of history is the will of a single individual.

Well, no. Even in The Sorrows of Empire, Spock had to cultivate and rely upon the goodwill of his allies in order to gain power.

Which is actually part of the point of the novel, after all -- that the Tantalus Device was the ultimate embodiment of the imperial impulse, the urge to subordinate others to the will of one man by fear, and that Spock was simultaneously the logical conclusion of that way of life, bringing about the imperial society's destruction, yet was paradoxically also attempting to show the Empire, and the galaxy at large, that another way of life was possible:

"Moments ago, I forced our government to renounce terror and preemptive violence as instruments of statecraft; I must now relinquish them as tools of politics."

you missed the part where i said "extremely condensed" didn't you?