Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise refit?

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

The glowing bussards were an embellishment on my part, partly because I could never figure out what Jefferies and company intended that would have enabled those dark caps to "read" on TV and partly because I couldn't resist trying a trick that would only work in CG: a rotating effect like the TOS one that could ignore the mechanical issues created by the bussard cap's odd shape.

 

[Maurice]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

I don't think the caps were ever supposed to be dark. It does seem strange that, after retrofitting the original model to have these lights in the nacelles that they'd design the new ship with no lit details. I sometimes wonder if the intention was to have the light effect from the grilles in lieu of a nosecone effect.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

Maybe, but I couldn't find any reference material which clearly indicated lighting other than a note on one of Jefferies' drawings about lining the side grilles with reflective mylar. The nacelles as they were being constructed appeared to be cast from opaque plastic.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

Dennis, could that have been planning to animate the lighting (for example, animating the engine coils) instead of lighting it up?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

I don't know. I doubt that they were planning to add effects in post that they could shoot on the stage - that kind of thing was still expensive and complicated. It's just that most of the drawings show black, perhaps glossy/reflective nacelle caps. Same deal with the main deflector dish - very dark, probably black (represented artistically with blue highlights). There's maybe some suggestion that the grilles are lit...Maurice thinks that the detail just under the nacelle caps looks in paintings as if it were going to be illuminated, but I wasn't convinced of that.

 

[PvtKtara]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

The Bussards could use some more red and orange.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

Here are some of Jefferies's drawings and some of the photos of the partially-built Loos model:

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/jefferies-phase-II.php

http://ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/wp-content/uploads/2005/07/Phase-II-Enterprise-model.jpg

 

[Maurice]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

I don't know. I doubt that they were planning to add effects in post that they could shoot on the stage - that kind of thing was still expensive and complicated. It's just that most of the drawings show black, perhaps glossy/reflective nacelle caps. Same deal with the main deflector dish - very dark, probably black (represented artistically with blue highlights). There's maybe some suggestion that the grilles are lit...Maurice thinks that the detail just under the nacelle caps looks in paintings as if it were going to be illuminated, but I wasn't convinced of that.

Which images show the nacelle caps as black? All the paintings I recall seeing render them as the hull color.

As to the detail under the nacelle caps, I noted that in one of Minor's paintings the brightness of them made it look as if they were illuminated, but that's just on the one image.

Some of Jefferies exploratory sketches for the Phase II ship include the idea of lighting coming from the grilles (Phase II book, color plates):

tube light
(BLUE-GREEN)
requires chroma-key
other than blue —

But this appears to have been dropped by the time they get to the final design of the model.

Let's also not forget that this thing was intended to be shot via the Magicam process, so maybe they planned some some of video effect in place of practical lighting? Who knows?

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

I don't know if it has anything to do with this conversation directly, but James Cawley just posted this on his Facebook wall a few minutes ago:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOD2RAlaiqk[/yt]

 

[Nightowl1701]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

Okay, that I can live with.

 

[PattyW]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

I don't know if it has anything to do with this conversation directly, but James Cawley just posted this on his Facebook wall a few minutes ago:

Yes, yes it does. Enjoy the preview!

 

[NewHorizon]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

SWEET!

 

[Draculasaurus]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

I like it!

 

[Maurice]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

I don't know if it has anything to do with this conversation directly, but James Cawley just posted this on his Facebook wall a few minutes ago:

Pretty model!

Just to recap, it's also not the model that was planned to be built for the series in the 70s. It's a hybrid of the original ship, the Phase 2 Ship, and the TMP ship. I think Dennis has it closest to what we probably would have gotten had the show been made—for good or bad.

 

[aridas sofia]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

I don't know if it has anything to do with this conversation directly, but James Cawley just posted this on his Facebook wall a few minutes ago:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOD2RAlaiqk[/yt]

That's an elegant piece of work. The Phase II model as it was being built by Don Loos has always struck me as being a design that wasn't ready to be built. Its "rough edges" were still showing. The TMP model was a radical way to finish it by rethinking it fundamentally. This attempt is far more subtle and to me, succeeds in helping to ease the viewer from the reality of TOS to that of TMP. I like it!

 

[Psion]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

I've never much cared for the Phase II design. It's too much a product of 70s television thinking and that dates it horribly.

What about Matt Jefferies' design is "a product of 70s television thinking," and what does that even mean?

It means they were only half way to a good design; getting the budget to redo it for the first movie finished the job properly.

Seriously, though, the sketches and photos of the model show too many odd shapes stuck on that don't appear to have much to do with each other. I'm reminded of detailing from Battlestar: Galactica and Buck Rogers, although it doesn't quite run amok with model tank parts. The drawing captioned "A New Enterprise" in the Reeves-Stevens Phase II book (among the color plates), is particularly bad with parts at mismatched angles and details that don't quite make sense. Some of those details are missing from the model photos, but that model is incomplete.

Curiously, the rest of the ship looks fine.

Cawley's clip seems to clean up the worst of the problems, or maybe he's implemented them in a way that makes them less apparent in a short shot. But on a page, in black and white ink, the nacelles just don't work.

 

[Fer]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

I like this! I really, really like this!

I don't know if it has anything to do with this conversation directly, but James Cawley just posted this on his Facebook wall a few minutes ago:

And I LOVE this!

I have to admit, part of me would really enjoy it if they'd just throw continuity out the window on this series and just make it as if Phase II had been made instead of TMP. But I always did enjoy "what if...?" stories.

I can see how new engines might mean that Engineering would need to be changed, but I don't think the bridge would need to be.

 

[Danlav05]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

From what I recall, the ship was to change with last year's release 'Enemy: Starfleet!', however due to fan backlash after the 2009 movie, the new PHASE II redesign was shelved. I say shelved, seemingly to be lifted off that shelf and reinstated.

Part of the big relaunch from New Voyages was that new uniform variants would appear (which has happened) and the ship will subtly change. I thought they would have reversed that, but gladly they're carrying on.

The Child, without getting too spoilery, was a clear step towards PHASE II, with Xon playing a significant role. I like that - undeniably the last 35 years of Trek would have been very very different if the show had launched the new Paramount Network, but with the book having so much detail of what didn't happen, one cannot help but think what it would have been like. Now CEC/RFS are going back in time as it were and filling that gap. Oh, and we know also the show got picked up by CBS isntead of NBC It's the little details - heck, Scotty's even grown his moustache ready for TMP! Obviously In Thy Image would have been the pilot, but it's set ''the other side'' as it were. No problem with that (especially considering the set/costume design of the movie) Cawley did tease the wonderfully regal Wrath of Khan uniform on Facebook - wonder what that's all about?

Also, no offence but we've had a dozen episodes (which is good actually) in 8 years, so time is ticking on for the production.

Yes there is also the option of staying as the 1969 show was until the end of the 5YM, but I LOVE the changes. I hope they find space in that studio to build that Engineering Room, I really do.

I look forward to Kitumba, which James says honours the later established canon, while adapting possibly the most famous untold story.

Fer's idea of diverting completely is an interesting one! At least it will give PHASE II a USP of being more than Season 4/5 of Star Trek.

Nevertheless, I have been a fan of this show since Come What May, and I will continue to follow the adventure!

 

[Captain Atkin]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

From what I recall, the ship was to change with last year's release 'Enemy: Starfleet!', however due to fan backlash after the 2009 movie, the new PHASE II redesign was shelved. I say shelved, seemingly to be lifted off that shelf and reinstated.

Was it a fan backlash? I think the producers kept the original Enterprise design simply because fans wanted to watch classic Star Trek. It kept the look and feel of the original series alive for those who didn't like the new movie. I don't think it had anything to do with the Phase 2 ship design not being liked, because it is a good ship design with classic roots. If anything, I think most fans embrace this design over the 2009 movie version.

Personally, I would like to see the New Voyages crew bounce back and forth a bit between the '60s' and '70s'. I don't think the episodes have to be filmed in a chronological order. They could film a 70s episode set on the Phase II Enterprise, and then go back and film an episode set on the 60s ship (while wearing the original uniforms).

 

[Danlav05]

Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re

From what I recall, the ship was to change with last year's release 'Enemy: Starfleet!', however due to fan backlash after the 2009 movie, the new PHASE II redesign was shelved. I say shelved, seemingly to be lifted off that shelf and reinstated.

Was it a fan backlash? I think the producers kept the original Enterprise design because fans wanted to watch classic Star Trek. I don't think it had anything to do with the Phase 2 ship design not being liked, because it is a good ship design with classic roots. If anything, I think most fans embrace this design over the 2009 movie version.

Personally, I would like to see the New Voyages crew bounce back and forth a bit between the '60s' and '70s'. I don't think the episodes have to be in a cronological order. They could film a Phase 2 episode set on the Phase II Enterprise, and then go back and film one episode set in the classic uniforms/original ship.

That's what I meant - I thought that people had asked they keep the Enterprise as it was in the TV series rather than being altered.

The only thing about flipping back and forth is the studio space, dressing and redressing, but it is a good idea - it's a pity they only usually can shoot one episode in a two week block, but that's real life.