X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

[Ian Keldon]

You do know Singer was a pretty big part of the new team, don't you? As producer and story credits?

He did one work pass on the script then stepped back into the producer role, where his influence on the actual film was limited (thankfully). The project was then given over to less stuffy creatives who gave us the final version.

 

[Ian Keldon]

What are yout talking about?
The X-films are the best comic-book inspired films of all. Only Nolan's Batman can compete with them.

Sorry, that honor belongs to Iron Man, or the original Superman (for DC fans).

Nolan doesn't make 'comic book movies'...just ask him...

FIRST CLASS was an outstanding film, and I cannot wait for the sequel, which will go into production January 2013.

Agreed.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

What are yout talking about?
The X-films are the best comic-book inspired films of all. Only Nolan's Batman can compete with them.

Sorry, that honor belongs to Iron Man, or the original Superman (for DC fans).

Nolan doesn't make 'comic book movies'...just ask him...

FIRST CLASS was an outstanding film, and I cannot wait for the sequel, which will go into production January 2013.

Agreed.

But just the first IRON MAN. That one was outstanding. And although the second was not bad, it felt unfinished.
I am looking forward to IRON MAN III which, according to interviews with the producers, will be a mixture of comic action and Tom Clancy like thriller.

 

[Eduardo]

With The Wolverine & First Class 2 coming up, this would make the X-Men franchise the longest running comic book franchise in history?

Up to 7 movies with these two, I think the longest before was the original Superman franchise (1-4, Supergirl & Returns, 6 movies).

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

You do know Singer was a pretty big part of the new team, don't you? As producer and story credits?

He did one work pass on the script then stepped back into the producer role, where his influence on the actual film was limited (thankfully). The project was then given over to less stuffy creatives who gave us the final version.

I think you may be selling his influence on the movie a little short.
Even in that he was directly responsible for getting Vaughn onto the project. Besides the fact that Singer's fingerprints are all over the final product, even Matt Murdock could see that.

 

[Ian Keldon]

With The Wolverine & First Class 2 coming up, this would make the X-Men franchise the longest running comic book franchise in history?

Up to 7 movies with these two, I think the longest before was the original Superman franchise (1-4, Supergirl & Returns, 6 movies).

Actually, it's Batman. Counting LA movies only:

Movie/Lead Actor
The Batman 1943 Lewis Wilson
Batman 1966 Adam West
Batman 1989 MIchael Keaton
Batman returns 1992 Michael Keaton
Batman Forever 1995 Val Kilmer
Batman & Robin 1997 George Clooney
Batman Begins 2005 Christian Bale
The Dark Knight 2008 Christian Bale

 

[Ian Keldon]

With The Wolverine & First Class 2 coming up, this would make the X-Men franchise the longest running comic book franchise in history?

Up to 7 movies with these two, I think the longest before was the original Superman franchise (1-4, Supergirl & Returns, 6 movies).

Actually, it's Batman:

Movie/Lead Actor)
The Batman 1943 Lewis Wilson
Batman 1966 Adam West
Batman 1989 MIchael Keaton
Batman returns 1992 Michael Keaton
Batman Forever 1995 Val Kilmer
Batman & Robin 1997 George Clooney
Batman Begins 2005 Christian Bale
The Dark Knight 2008 Christian Bale

I think you may be selling his influence on the movie a little short.

Even in that he was directly responsible for getting Vaughn onto the project. Besides the fact that Singer's fingerprints are all over the final product, even Matt Murdock could see that.

I don't see it. FC was a lot faster paced, didn't spend a lot of time on angsty allegorical "fluff", was better cast and better acted overall.

 

[Xavier_Storma]

With The Wolverine & First Class 2 coming up, this would make the X-Men franchise the longest running comic book franchise in history?

Up to 7 movies with these two, I think the longest before was the original Superman franchise (1-4, Supergirl & Returns, 6 movies).

Actually, it's Batman. Counting LA movies only:

Movie/Lead Actor
The Batman 1943 Lewis Wilson
Batman 1966 Adam West
Batman 1989 MIchael Keaton
Batman returns 1992 Michael Keaton
Batman Forever 1995 Val Kilmer
Batman & Robin 1997 George Clooney
Batman Begins 2005 Christian Bale
The Dark Knight 2008 Christian Bale

But those do not share the same continuity...

You could always add GENERATION X to the X-film mix...

THE AVENGERS are close, and will surpass the X-Men next year.

But: Hugh Jackman is with his 5 (soon to become 6) Wolverine outings a recordholder. Robert Downey Jr. will be second by next year, when Iron Man III will be released having 5 films as Tony Stark.

 

[Admiral_Young]

@Ian Keldon your statements about Singer are incorrect as was pointed out. He came up with the story treatment used as the basis for the script, and helped cast the film, and almost nearly directed the movie, but couldn't get out of his "Jack the Giant Killer" iron clad contract with Warner Bros. He also consulted with Vaughn on the film as well. So again, without his original pitch to Laura Donner this film would not have happened as it did. He also voiced his disappointment and concern when the WGA announced it's accreditation of the credits for the film and left out Jamie Moss who was responsible for writing the first draft of the script based on his treatment I believe and instead gave story credit to Sheldon Turner. All you have to do is conduct a google search to see how much Bryan Singer was involved in this movie. As I said, he almost directed it.

 

[beamMe]

You do know Singer was a pretty big part of the new team, don't you? As producer and story credits?

He did one work pass on the script then stepped back into the producer role, where his influence on the actual film was limited (thankfully). The project was then given over to less stuffy creatives who gave us the final version.

We have seen what happens when Singer isn't involved with the X-Men films: The Last Stand and Wolverine.

First Class feels so much more in synch with the Singer-films and his style that, I at least, had the feeling he directed it.

 

[Gaith]

We have seen what happens when Singer isn't involved with the X-Men films: The Last Stand and Wolverine.

QFMutha-frippin'T.

 

[Ian Keldon]

First Class feels so much more in synch with the Singer-films and his style that, I at least, had the feeling he directed it.

I don't see how you can make that statement. The Singer X-films are ponderous, allegory-ridden angst fests where the characters spend as much if not more time navel-gazing about the Mutant Question as they do engaging in feats of super daring-do.

The fight staging is slow and blocky and oh-so stagey. "Ok, first two mutants up! Mutant 1 do your power. Mutant 2 do your power. Cut. Ok, next two mutants up..."

And they hideously underpowers 99% of his characters. Magneto didn't even get to BE Magneto in any meaningful way until III.

This was part of his "keep it 'real'" philosophy, whether it was self-developed by Singer or imposed by the suits in the front office. The first three films acted as if they were either ashamed or frightened about their genre.

It wasn't until FC came out that the franchise finally "embraced the spandex" and became a proper super-hero franchise entry.

First 3 vs First Class is the creative difference between night and day.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Your statement is amusing since as has been pointed out several times now, Singer had a very deep involvement with "X-Men: First Class" whether you want to accept this or not, it is a fact. Again without his pitch we would not have had the film we got. Prior to Bryan's pitch which got the project rolling again, Fox was planning on doing an adaptation of Jeff Parker's excellent First Class comic (which a lot of fans thought we were actually getting at first for the longest time. I'm not sure why it is so hard to accept that Singer had a great deal to do with First Class. Matthew Vaughn essentially executed Singer's vision while bringing Vaughn's own unique story telling abilities as director and co-writer. They were working very much in conjunction with each other.

 

[beamMe]

The first three films acted as if they were either ashamed or frightened about their genre.

Despite all your bitching and complaining about the allegory in the Singer films, you really didn't get it, did you?

Besides, we had that same theme in First Class again.

 

[Gaith]

This was part of his "keep it 'real'" philosophy

And that's a bad thing? Raiders, for instance, feels far more 'real' than KOTCS; same thing goes for The Terminator and Terminator Salvation. X1 also feels far more 'real' than X3, and, surprise, surprise, is a vastly better movie.

But even if you don't consider that a virtue in its own right, remember that X1 was at the very start of the ongoing superhero movie boom, and as such, paved the way for more out-there movies... FC included.

 

[Ian Keldon]

^ Your statement is amusing since as has been pointed out several times now, Singer had a very deep involvement with "X-Men: First Class" whether you want to accept this or not, it is a fact. Again without his pitch we would not have had the film we got.

I don't care who "pitched" what. What came out on the screen did NOT look or feel like the first 3 films. THAT is the only important fact.

The people who actually MADE the film (not who "pitched" it, or who was the bean-counter who "produced" it, but who actually put sets, costumes and actors on film and assembled the final story) had a very different vision than Singer's bloated, self-important allegorical pieces.

I'm not sure why it is so hard to accept that Singer had a great deal to do with First Class.

Because he DIDN'T have anything meaningful to do with the actual production of the film, as evidenced by it's radical departure in tone and style from I-III.

Matthew Vaughn essentially executed Singer's vision while bringing Vaughn's own unique story telling abilities as director and co-writer. They were working very much in conjunction with each other.

See above.

The first three films acted as if they were either ashamed or frightened about their genre.

Despite all your bitching and complaining about the allegory in the Singer films, you really didn't get it, did you?

Oh I got it...there was no way NOT to "get it", given how Singer kept hammering the viewer upside the head with it in endlessly dull "mutant angst" scenes where the characters all sit around bemoaning how horrible their lot is.

Not a one of them ever stopped and said "Look at this...I can [insert what they could do]...COOL!"

Besides, we had that same theme in First Class again.

But it was handled in an entirely different, not annoying way.

This was part of his "keep it 'real'" philosophy

And that's a bad thing?

Yes.

X1 also feels far more 'real' than X3, and, surprise, surprise, is a vastly better movie.

To the extent that it is a better film, X1's "realism" nonsense is NOT the reason it is better. X3 needed another round of story polish, and a better conclusion to the whole "Dark Phoenix" arc.

Where X3 stood out was that it was the first time the X-films even attempted to show the characters at something approaching their proper power levels.

But even if you don't consider that a virtue in its own right, remember that X1 was at the very start of the ongoing superhero movie boom, and as such, paved the way for more out-there movies... FC included.

That is a fair point.

 

[beamMe]

Because he DIDN'T have anything meaningful to do with the actual production of the film, as evidenced by it's radical departure in tone and style from I-III.

I don't know which movies you've seen, but the First Class that I've seen returns to the tone and style of the first two films. The Last Stand is the one that stands outs as different.

 

[Gaith]

I don't know which movies you've seen, but the First Class that I've seen returns to the tone and style of the first two films. The Last Stand is the one that stands outs as different.

This.


We should also remember that X1's budget was fairly modest, and CGI resources less advanced than those of today, both factors pushing for a more restrained style than X3's.

 

[Ian Keldon]

Because he DIDN'T have anything meaningful to do with the actual production of the film, as evidenced by it's radical departure in tone and style from I-III.

I don't know which movies you've seen, but the First Class that I've seen returns to the tone and style of the first two films. The Last Stand is the one that stands outs as different.

FC's fight scenes are dynamic, integrated and fast paced. I-III's fight scenes are stagey, ponderously edited and underpowered.

FCs plot moves right along with only a few nods to the "mutant question" subplot that don't bring the story to a screeching halt while the characters sit around navel gazing about how crappy life is because they are mutants, unlike I-III.

FC's characterizations sparkle with wit and humor where appropriate (Charles, et al), and harsh intensity where required (Magneto). This is in contrast to the very subdued cast of I-III.

FCs cinematography is expansive and visually interesting. I and II look cramped and claustrophobic. III tried to open itself up visually, but still relied heavily on relatively tight, static shots most of the time.

 

[Daneel]

Ian Keldon, it sounds as if you think that the X-Men films shouldn't be about anything more than a bunch of mutants showing off their cool powers. Personally, I'll take the "bloated, self-important allegory" over a glorified special effects reel any day.