Praising Allah in the trek universe

[Sci]

It is perfectly fair to say you'd like to see Christians represented as visibly as Muslims in TrekLit -- though it's not like Muslims are particularly visible in TrekLit; there are one or two characters that occasionally say "Praise Allah," and that's about it.

Oh, there's been a little more than that. My Trek debut, SCE: Aftermath, featured Cemal Iskander, the civilian Director of Earth Security, as a devout Muslim whose faith was an important part of his character and his motivations.

I missed that one! I shall have to give it a read.

But I still think that sort of characterization is uncommon in TrekLit. Most of the characters make passing references to their faiths (be they Christian or Muslim), but it's not typically front and center in their characterizations. Which is fine -- Star Trek is upper-middle-brow action-adventure space opera with an egalitarian liberal/progressive political bent, not a meditation on the role of religion of religion in civil society. My larger point is that it's misleading of Min Zife to imply that the role of Islamic beliefs has been a major element in modern TrekLit.

Indeed. In fact, The Sundered makes it clear that a democratic Muslim Bloc comprising the nations of the Middle East had allied with the United States and European Union, and was itself the target of the Eastern Coalition's nuclear wrath during the May Day Horror of 2053 which marked the start of World War III.

Certainly possible, depending on how the current sociopolitical upheavals in the Mideast pan out. There's definitely a democratic ferment in that part of the world, though it remains to be seen whether it will prevail. Certainly Islam is compatible with democracy, since it teaches that no one but God should have authority over the individual (and there's a long tradition of philosophical debate in Islam over the legitimacy of human rulers and governments).

I am simultaneously pleased that real world events have rendered The Sundered's depiction of a democratic Muslim Bloc in the 2030s much more plausible than it was in 2003... and sad that real world events have made DS9's "Past Tense" episodes' depictions of economic depression and systemic violence against the poor and unemployed in the 2030s far more plausible than it had been in 1995.

Oh well. Maybe we'll get around to warp drive and contact with aliens and democratic planetary unity without having to go through that World War III thing.

...does not the possibility remain that one could also interpret Khatami or other Allah-invoking characters as Arabic-speaking Christians, even if the original creative intent was that they be Muslims?

Technically, yes. The word "Allah" has been part of the Arabic language longer than Islam has been around.

<SNIP>

However, as you say, Atish Khatami is Persian, not Arabic. The Persian word for "God" is apparently Khoda. So I think if an English-speaking Persian says "Allah be praised" as Khatami did in Summon the Thunder, the fact that she's using the Arabic word implies that she's a Muslim.

I'm inclined to agree, but I brought that up to demonstrate a larger point: Khatami's faith is clearly a part of her, but it's depicted in such a subtle manner that it is unreasonable of Min Zife to act as though her scenes in Vanguard are essentially Islamic screed the way he has. She is subtly implied to be a Muslim, but nothing about her faith dominates her characterization. It's something that's just taken for granted, and not made front and center of who she is; indeed, in re-reading Summon the Thunder, she's much more colored in the narrative by her loyalty to Captain Zhao and her guilt over leaving him on Erilon than by her religious beliefs; in fact, her beliefs are so vague that it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to interpret her as something other than a Muslim, since the only Islamic thing that is explicitly established abut her is the use of the word "Allah." So Min Zife's reaction to her religion is completely disproportionate to the degree of prominence it is given in the narrative.

 

[horatio83]

I don't see anything in there about how it's okay to stereotype or dislike Muslims, or call them a backwards civilization, or hold them all responsible for terrorists, or to say or think any of the other horrible things you've said about Muslims in this thread.

Looks like our Islamophobic Christian friend missed the love your enemy part ... if he actually has ever read Matthew. Sometimes these guys sound more like they are just mindless drones who repeat the hateful and ignorant told to them by their masters and less like guys who actually read the religious texts they claim to care so deeply about.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Can I just say that pretty much everyone who's replied to this thread has done themselves proud. Despite the provocative nature of the opening post and the general topic, everyone's responded in a calm, reasoned manner and avoided any excessive venting. I think that's extremely admirable.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Despite the provocative nature of the opening post and the general topic, everyone's responded in a calm, reasoned manner and avoided any excessive venting. I think that's extremely admirable.

We were just waiting so we could all pile onto you. But you'd only roll up like a pillbug anyway.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Despite the provocative nature of the opening post and the general topic, everyone's responded in a calm, reasoned manner and avoided any excessive venting. I think that's extremely admirable.

We were just waiting so we could all pile onto you. But you'd only roll up like a pillbug anyway.

Seriously, it's times like this that make me think "it's really a great bunch of people here".

 

[LightningStorm]

FYI, the troll was booted, sorry you guys wasted as many minutes typing up replies to his nonsense. Gonna keep the thread open though since the convo seems to have taken on a life of its own.

 

[Christopher]

^I don't think it was a waste. It's good to have opportunities to speak up against such notions and reaffirm our principles. Heck, that's why we write and/or discuss Star Trek. Maybe someone out there will read this thread and learn something from it, or question some preconceptions.

I'm not surprised he was ruled a troll, though, given that he also started an "Avengers is gonna suck and I hate Whedon" thread on the same morning.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

I could swear I read about a Bajoran who'd converted to Christianity in some Trek story or another. Does that sound familiar to anyone else?

 

[Brikar99]

I learned a lot of little factoids in this thread. I'm strangely glad that I read the whole thing.

 

[Kertrats47]

Here's an essay I think you need to read, although I doubt you'll allow yourself to open your mind enough to think about what it says, even though it's written by a fellow Christian:

http://www.danoah.com/2011/11/im-christian-unless-youre-gay.html

Christopher, thanks for posting that, it was a great read! His sentiments are exactly how I feel on a day-to-day basis when I read about or see hatred in this world. Thanks again!

 

[Brikar99]

Here's an essay I think you need to read, although I doubt you'll allow yourself to open your mind enough to think about what it says, even though it's written by a fellow Christian:

http://www.danoah.com/2011/11/im-christian-unless-youre-gay.html

Christopher, thanks for posting that, it was a great read! His sentiments are exactly how I feel on a day-to-day basis when I read about or see hatred in this world. Thanks again!

Here's the follow-up:
http://www.danoah.com/2012/04/a-teens-brave-response-to-im-christian-unless-youre-gay.html

 

[nightwind1]

Ever since The Sundered (right after 9/11) it seems we've been getting an influx of Muslim characters

Star Trek Log Seven by Alan Dean Foster (1976) depicts one of the engineers involved in the construction of the Enterprise facing toward Mecca during daily prayers, from an orbital construction complex. Even that may not be the first acknowledgment of the Islamic faith in Star Trek fiction, but it's earliest I can recall, and certainly not the only one that predates The Sundered.

I was going to post this very same thing, but you beat me to it, Marco. I remembered that bit, and the last time I read that book was probably 30 years ago.

 

[Kertrats47]

Here's an essay I think you need to read, although I doubt you'll allow yourself to open your mind enough to think about what it says, even though it's written by a fellow Christian:

http://www.danoah.com/2011/11/im-christian-unless-youre-gay.html

Christopher, thanks for posting that, it was a great read! His sentiments are exactly how I feel on a day-to-day basis when I read about or see hatred in this world. Thanks again!

Here's the follow-up:
http://www.danoah.com/2012/04/a-teens-brave-response-to-im-christian-unless-youre-gay.html

Oh my god. I actually have tears in my eyes.

 

[Lanny77]

I've always enjoyed the inclusion of Muslim, Hindu and Jewish characters in Trek Lit. Humanity's trope has always been it's diversity, that we've gotten over our petty squabbles. And by including characters from different backgrounds, greater weight and credence is lent to that argument.

I once read a story (which I can't for the life of me remember the name) which involved a very Jetanien-esqe klingon ambassador whom had converted to Roman Catholicism. What I enjoyed most about them was how marvellously understated it was. They weren't some bible-bashing religious crusader shouting how unbelievers were going to hell. But more like the village pastor, drinking tea, comforting you when a loved one died and humorously paraphrasing scripture to prove a point.

When it comes to the portrayl of relgion, I think Babylon 5 did a pretty interesting take on it. One of my favourite is the mini-sode Over Here where the station commander and a priest debate how humanity has changed since first contact and it's effects on religion, admitting that they still don't know the answer to some of the big questions.

 

[garamet]

Praising Allah in the trek universe
Ever since The Sundered (right after 9/11) it seems we've been getting an influx of Muslim characters as a lesson in inclusive polictiaclly correct doses, started by the commie writers Mangles and Martin.

Considering that Marx wrote "Religion is the opium of the people," your topic sentence makes no sense.

Anyway, a nominally Muslim character appeared in Dwellers in the Crucible in 1985.

 

[j3067]

I am simultaneously pleased that real world events have rendered The Sundered's depiction of a democratic Muslim Bloc in the 2030s much more plausible than it was in 2003... and sad that real world events have made DS9's "Past Tense" episodes' depictions of economic depression and systemic violence against the poor and unemployed in the 2030s far more plausible than it had been in 1995.

It was, unfortunately, fairly plausible in 1995. According to Mem Alpha, filming of this episode coincided with a proposal from the Mayor of LA to create fenced in area's for the city's homeless.

Although, not state sanctioned, there are also too many incidents of despicable violence committed against the homeless: http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/hatecrimes.htmlhttp://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1852825,00.html.

 

[Sci]

Praising Allah in the trek universe
Ever since The Sundered (right after 9/11) it seems we've been getting an influx of Muslim characters as a lesson in inclusive polictiaclly correct doses, started by the commie writers Mangles and Martin.

Considering that Marx wrote "Religion is the opium of the people," your topic sentence makes no sense.

Yeah, but how does that distinguish it from the rest of his posts in this thread?

 

[xortex]

I am wondering how close "in Sheriel's Jaws' was to Shariel's law? of which I know neither how to spell them or what they're about other than one can't be nearly as bad as the other, nor care to google it right now. Anyone?

 

[j3067]

I am wondering how close "in Sheriel's Jaws' was to Shariel's law? of which I know neither how to spell them or what they're about other than one can't be nearly as bad as the other, nor care to google it right now. Anyone?

Here you go: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Shariel's+law

 

[Christopher]

I am wondering how close "in Sheriel's Jaws' was to Shariel's law? of which I know neither how to spell them or what they're about other than one can't be nearly as bad as the other, nor care to google it right now. Anyone?

Wait a minute, what? Are you talking about Sharia, aka Islamic law? That's as silly as comparing Spock to a spork -- or, well, law to jaws. "Shariel" was D. C. Fontana's unofficial name for the Vulcan god of death (i.e. the statue in Spock's quarters). It was also her original name for Spock's father in "Journey to Babel"'s first draft before it was changed to Sarek. You might as well ask how close that was to Shari Lewis and Lambchop, or Shari Belafonte-Harper. They're just letters that happen to go in the same order.

And Sharia is no more "bad" than any other code of laws. In fact, it's not even a formal code, more an ongoing discussion among Muslim religious scholars about the duties and responsibilities of Muslims seeking to serve God in their lives. As such, it's been open to a wide range of interpretations over the centuries and across the many cultures where it's practiced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia