It's not your country.
The future of the Republican Party.
- Thread starter Yevetha
- Start date
It's not your country.
Would you like them to give up the right to vote too? You clearly don't want them to be able to control their own bodies. Then if one of them dies due to a complication, too bad. Because at least you are comfortable with society reverting to the way it was 40 years ago. There will be women dying in back alley clinics, but at least you are comfortable.
Knight Templar
Commodore
I understand medically necessary abortions. which is why I stated "elective".
But you and I both know that for the overwhelming vast majority of abortions in the United States there is no medical justification.
Why can't women simply carry an unwanted child to term and give them up for adoption? IIRC, there are only something like 17,000 adoptions in the United States a year. Why not make more babies available?
And control over your own body? Even under the most libertarian view of rights in the United States, no one has unlimited control over their own bodies........
That's fine if she chooses that. The decision should not be forced on her for the comfort of others who believe a fertilized egg is a human being.
Being a European social democrat who is for all kind of funky shit I am probably quite a bit to the left of the ordinary American liberal ... but with wage regulation you make a step you really wanna think twice about.
For young female white-collar workers there is also the pregnancy issue. If your company invests into your skills it wants a return on that investment and seniority wage patterns are one way to tie employees to the company. So a totally non-sexist employer might be either hesitant to higher women for a white-collar job or price the pregnancy risk in which implies a lower wage.
I am not saying that this actually explains wage discrimination but this highlights the problem of forcing equal wages.
Over here a stupid court stopped gender discrimination in insurance. So women who have fewer car accidents than men will have to pay higher fees now and men who do have a shorter life expectancy will have to pay higher life insurance fees.
This is clearly an example of political correctness gone crazy, being unable to distinguish between actual discrimination and statistical discrimination
Why not simply have a lower pay rate for any sort of leave (sick, pregnant, etc.)? It doesn't make sense to pay a woman less because she might have to leave an extended amount of time.
Damn straight it isn't. It's every American's country. Including those women who want to have control over their own bodies and health during at least the first two trimesters of pregnancy...if not the entire process.
Hey, I'm pro-life in the third trimester except for emergency cases where a late pregnancy threatens the lives of both the baby as well as the mother and then exceptions can sensibly and clearly be made. But to think that the state has some right to intervene in every step of the human reproductive process from intercourse to fertilization to birth is not only disrespectful to the fundamental principles of individual liberty as well as rights of privacy, but is also---in my opinion---quite un-American.
When it gets down to it, no one gets an abortion in the third trimester unless something is seriously wrong. You've already had the baby shower at that point. No one realizes that they're 8 months pregnant before spring break and waddles to the clinic.
True, a better incentive scheme for the employer might be to make the seniority pattern steeper instead of reducing the wage in general.
Anyway, may point has merely been that price and wage regulations are a serious form of market interference we really wanna think twice about.
Fighting against discrimination is important for everybody on the left but finding the best ways to do so is often difficult and fighting against statistical discrimination is something I oppose. If we want to help e.g. people in wheelchairs forcing every landlord to install an elevator is wrong whereas installing elevators in public buildings and public housing is the way to go.
About conservatives and abortion, I will take them seriously once they take sex education seriously.
Sure, but tell that to the hardcore fundies who think that a mother is going to wait until the eighth month to abort her child out of some sort of trashy immorality and pure spite. To those people every single abortion on the planet is a vile criminal act along the lines of infanticide or first-degree murder, so you can't reason with most of them when that rare, random mother actually needs a third-trimester abortion because of a dire, life-threatening emergency. Like you said, man...no woman gets a third-trimester abortion unless their very health or even life are on the line.
It would also help if they weren't so concerned with contraceptives as well. Until then I'm convinced their just a bunch of women hating idiots.
But what about fathers (like me) who use the Family Medical Leave Act to stay home with our wives and newborns? When our daughter was born, I was home with her the first six weeks. It's not just women who take extended time off for the birth of a child.
As for abortions, this is yet another example of how the religious right wing has taken over the GOP. It's not the government's place to force a woman to have child she doesn't want. This should be an easy call for traditional conservatives. Get Big Brother off our backs, right?
I don't claim to be a legal expert, but as I understand it, Roe v Wade is not about the "right" to an abortion, it's about the right to medical privacy. Ultimately it's a private matter, IMHO.
As for the fathers, well...I do have some sympathy for their predicament (in those rare cases where the father wants to keep it), but ultimately they knew (or should have known) how it works. This is not new or hidden information.
In the end, I think Bill Clinton was exactly right (although I don't know if he was quoting someone else or not):
"Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare."
Knight Templar
Commodore
So it wsa "un-American" for the first 197 years of the United States's existence?
Knight Templar
Commodore
Besides a few Catholics, who cares about contraceptives anyway?
Have you even paid attention to the news recently, it's been as popular as a celebrity death.
Your point? Slavery was considered a "peculiar American institution" for about 90 years. Segregation even longer.
Precisely. It's not like anybody who is against the criminalization of abortion in general is happy about women doing it, we just want them to be able to go to regular doctors instead of quacks.
If conservatives were really concerned about abortion being misused as a substitute for contraceptives they would be big fans of sex education instead of 'ignorance, abstinence and marriage'.
And bet I can find a unapologetic racist who is also a Republican.
Look. This country of yours that you think existed, never existed. There's always been an element that hasn't been suitable for Leave it to Beaver. The only difference between then and now is that we talk about it whereas then it wasn't "polite conversation".
So is the nature of society. Every successive generation gets more liberal than the last. Trying to be big government (yes, you people are just as guilty) and legislate morality isn't going to work. It's never has worked and it never will work.
Look. This country of yours that you think existed, never existed. There's always been an element that hasn't been suitable for Leave it to Beaver. The only difference between then and now is that we talk about it whereas then it wasn't "polite conversation".
So is the nature of society. Every successive generation gets more liberal than the last. Trying to be big government (yes, you people are just as guilty) and legislate morality isn't going to work. It's never has worked and it never will work.
The "good old days" involved segregated buses, swimming pools, theaters and lunch counters, way higher and quite scary infant mortality and illiteracy rates, institutionalized sexism and gender discrimination in the workplace, poverty that makes today's 14% rate seem like a downright utopia in comparison and an entire region of the country being a dark, foreboding Lil Abner parody where Klansmen lynched people with impunity and an entire race of American citizens couldn't vote. Hardly the paradise a lot of old farts, fundamentalists and reactionaries claim they remember from their youths.
And for the record? LEAVE IT TO BEAVER wasn't very funny, either. Now...THE HONEYMOONERS? That was some cutting edge, hilarious shit. But I digress.
And for the record? LEAVE IT TO BEAVER wasn't very funny, either. Now...THE HONEYMOONERS? That was some cutting edge, hilarious shit. But I digress.
