I don't think so. But why does it matter if they had sex anyway, I wonder. Would that have made their same-sex interest more real or valid?
When you apply this kind of reasoning, a lot of people on this board couldn't be considered heterosexual.
Star Trek and Homosexuality
- Thread starter jpch
- Start date
When you apply this kind of reasoning, a lot of people on this board couldn't be considered heterosexual.
Yes, although constancy might equally mean no longer loving someone who changes. That is, it's about maintaining one's own integrity - sometimes folks change, and we quite rightly no longer feel the same way about them.
And it's not always because they change for the worse. Dax and Worf couldn't make it work once Dax was Ezri. This struck me as realistic (if the word can be used about a situation involving a slug and a ridged space warrior).
I'm not sure I see it that way.
When a symbiont joins with a new host they become a new person, right? With a new body, a new personality and sometimes even with a new gender.
So to me, the initial attraction that Jadzia and Lenara felt could be explained as a continuation of their previous interest, but when Jadzia was ready to abandon everything for Lenara I viewed it as a new love for a new person.
When a symbiont joins with a new host they become a new person, right? With a new body, a new personality and sometimes even with a new gender.
So to me, the initial attraction that Jadzia and Lenara felt could be explained as a continuation of their previous interest, but when Jadzia was ready to abandon everything for Lenara I viewed it as a new love for a new person.
Star Trek dropped the ball by letting society leapfrog it on this issue. I'm right-leaning in my politics, but progressive in my social views, and it irks me as a life-long lover of all things Trek that it allowed itself to fall behind on homosexual acceptance.
But that being said, I don't think the more recent incarnations of Trek have had mature enough writing, especially but not exclusively on matters of sexuality or romance, to tackle the issue.
I think that posters above who have said that it's not hard to write gay characters are correct, in the abstract. But I don't think the people who were specifically writing Star Trek would have done a good job of it.
In that way, and for that reason, I'm almost glad Trek avoided it. A bad token gay episode would perhaps be, in hindsight, even worse than silence.
But that being said, I don't think the more recent incarnations of Trek have had mature enough writing, especially but not exclusively on matters of sexuality or romance, to tackle the issue.
I think that posters above who have said that it's not hard to write gay characters are correct, in the abstract. But I don't think the people who were specifically writing Star Trek would have done a good job of it.
In that way, and for that reason, I'm almost glad Trek avoided it. A bad token gay episode would perhaps be, in hindsight, even worse than silence.
I suspect you're absolutely right about Trek's inability to rise to the occasion.
Which is why, for me, the novels are sometimes a breath of fresh air. The authors are given a chance to give characters more... character. The Hawk/Keru romance, for example. It's a big plot point for Kero, but handled with restraint.
Having said this, I could've done without the Bashir sex in Typhon Pact, even though it was (in my imagination) two good-looking people enjoying one another in a guiltless, tender way. The details didn't add terribly much to the story.
Good point. I hated the way Enterprise depicted romance and sexuality.
This is true DAYoung, but I don't understand it myself. Surely romance is popular?
Speak for yourself. I'm convinced Julian and Miles had more going on than we the audience ever saw.
Speak for yourself. I'm convinced Julian and Miles had more going on than we the audience ever saw.
Me too. There was that big confession from Miles on how he liked Julian better his wife.. who knows what really went on in the holodeck? The alamo my ass.
It is, and that's why there's plenty of it in Star Trek. But it's handled poorly.
Off the top of my head, it's partly to do with the format. The romantic interests are usually one-episode players. So there's no opportunity to develop. Whereas Geordie and Data have years to become buddies.
I also think romance, as opposed to friendship, requires a certain mature honesty about physical relationships, and Star Trek has usually aimed too low for this (in television, if not books).
I can only guess - and I am guessing - that this is partly to do with the conservative culture of US free-to-air television? From afar, it looks like violence is less worrying than sex for many viewers (or that the networks think it is, anyway)
In America society (unfortunately) violence is out in the open and considered part of life, even if you're not personally exposed to it, it's in the news on a daily basis.
Sex on the other hand is still supposed to be "behind close doors." And is not part of polite society.
It's different where you are?
Well, the act itself still happens, for the most part, behind closed doors. But we're a little more relaxed about representations of this act, e.g. on television.
It gets real basic though doesn't it? Why can a man and woman kiss on a family viewable show but not two men?
See we're not talking about SEX ON TV here, just give same sex couples the same family friendly kissing as het couples.
See we're not talking about SEX ON TV here, just give same sex couples the same family friendly kissing as het couples.
Billy Bob Joe probably has a collection of 'fellas kissing' magazines under his bed.
He just doesn't want his kids seeing it in prime time.
Do you mean they have to show more sex in order to make relationships appear more real? If so, I don't agree. They tried that in ENT and it didn't work. They showed some sex, but it was anything but romantic or mature. In my opinion anyway.
It's not only Trek that has trouble mixing sex and romance in a mature way. I live in a country that has more explicit sex on prime time tv and in movies than violence, but the sex usually doesn't involve any real romance.
