Knight Templar
Commodore
Bush was president in 2005 and Republicans controlled both houses of Congress.
Not seeing your point there.
The future of the Republican Party.
- Thread starter Yevetha
- Start date
Bush was president in 2005 and Republicans controlled both houses of Congress.
Not seeing your point there.
Knight Templar
Commodore
Granted. You have a point.
Well dude, either you are for or against flying to Mars. I think a few hundred billion dollars is a small price to pay to get up there. We did it in the sixties where economic output has been about half as high as today so it should be a piece of cake today.
The budget issue is not a matter of feasibility but priority.
Knight Templar
Commodore
Agreed.
And I wish to point out again that even under current budget plans, NASA will spend 140-160 billion dollars over the next 10 years without solid plans to actually do anything beyond Earth orbit.
It is simply a matter of prioritizing. We're not talking about building a starship. We're talking about traveling to the second closest planet to Earth in the solar system.
and as G. Harry Stine (Lee Correy) once said, once you are in Earth orbit you are "halfway to anywhere"
In my opinion part of the problem is the notion that spending the money on narrow-targeted research would be a far better idea.
This is not how it works. When I seek a book about a particular theme the book usually sucks, whereas whenever I accidentally stumble over something it is usually quite interesting. And that's not just me, folks in the military came up with the internet because they had some freedom, some space to breath. Any great invention is to a large degree accidental and when we fly to Mars a lot of discoveries we make there will have unanticipated effects upon our knowledge.
In Zeframe Cochrane's times the argument for spending money on something "useful" would have been even stronger than today but precisely via spending money on something totally useless, a faster-than-light drive in a post-nuclear world, humankind made a large leap forward.
It clearly needs people like Zubrin to remind us of this all the time. As NASA and ESA are already working together to some degree money cannot be an argument against manned spaceflight. The history books will probably look back one day at this space hiatus and ask "what the hell where they thinking?!".
This is not how it works. When I seek a book about a particular theme the book usually sucks, whereas whenever I accidentally stumble over something it is usually quite interesting. And that's not just me, folks in the military came up with the internet because they had some freedom, some space to breath. Any great invention is to a large degree accidental and when we fly to Mars a lot of discoveries we make there will have unanticipated effects upon our knowledge.
In Zeframe Cochrane's times the argument for spending money on something "useful" would have been even stronger than today but precisely via spending money on something totally useless, a faster-than-light drive in a post-nuclear world, humankind made a large leap forward.
It clearly needs people like Zubrin to remind us of this all the time. As NASA and ESA are already working together to some degree money cannot be an argument against manned spaceflight. The history books will probably look back one day at this space hiatus and ask "what the hell where they thinking?!".
Knight Templar
Commodore
Agreed completely. Applied science springs from the womb of basic or general science
After observing the Republican party for the past several months with its clown car of a primary and its inexplicable war on women's health, I think the GOP needs to be put into a straitjacket and then locked in a padded room before it can do anymore harm to itself and to the country.
Yeah people, let's be nice to the guy who:
1) wants to take away women's choices.
2) denies gay people's rights.
3) wants US soldiers to kill more Arab people.
4) thinks space exploration is a political tool and not a scientific endeavour.
5) supports discrimination of minorities.
6) supports exploitation of workers.
Yeah, there's really no reason we can't get along swimmingly.
Knight Templar
Commodore
I never said anything about #1, #3, #4, #5, & #6. You can make that argument about #2 but I recognize that is a matter not everyone will ever agree on.
If you want to criticize my positions, please criticize what I've actually said and not what you infer.
I inferred nothing. You said you were never going to vote for a party that:
I just worded it more harshly, but the meaning is the same.
Knight Templar
Commodore
If you view abortion as a "right" and thus a valid choice you might have a point on #1 I suppose.
I said absolutely nothing about the
"military killing more Arab people" (or killing anyone for that matter).
I said nothing about the space program as a political tool.
I said nothing about discriminating against minorities or exploiting workers.
In short. You lied.
It's like I've said many times before both on these boards and to my friends. I didn't leave the Republican Party. The Republican Party left me. 
It's like I've said many times before both on these boards and to my friends. I didn't leave the Republican Party. The Republican Party left me.
You're in your 30s, aren't you? I don't see how the GOP could ever have been a valid option for a thinking man of that age?
Now granted the GOP has reached a totally new level of idiocy in recent years but come on...
You've been voting for less than 20 years I guess? Did Bob Dole excite you?
It's like I've said many times before both on these boards and to my friends. I didn't leave the Republican Party. The Republican Party left me.
You're in your 30s, aren't you? I don't see how the GOP could ever have been a valid option for a thinking man of that age?
Now granted the GOP has reached a totally new level of idiocy in recent years but come on...
You've been voting for less than 20 years I guess? Did Bob Dole excite you?
No. I voted twice for Bill Clinton, and happily so. Bush 41 was a stultifying disappointment and Bob Dole---to be kind---was a tired, archaic old fart with stale ideas whereas President Clinton was a fairly successful centrist chief executive who headed up a good and rapidly growing economy.
It's like I've said many times before both on these boards and to my friends. I didn't leave the Republican Party. The Republican Party left me.
You're in your 30s, aren't you? I don't see how the GOP could ever have been a valid option for a thinking man of that age?
Now granted the GOP has reached a totally new level of idiocy in recent years but come on...
You've been voting for less than 20 years I guess? Did Bob Dole excite you?
No. I voted twice for Bill Clinton, and happily so. Bush 41 was a stultifying disappointment and Bob Dole---to be kind---was a tired, archaic old fart with stale ideas whereas President Clinton was a fairly successful centrist chief executive who headed up a good and rapidly growing economy.
I will not ask about Dubya then for the sake of my own sanity and blood pressure.
Knight Templar
Commodore
It's like I've said many times before both on these boards and to my friends. I didn't leave the Republican Party. The Republican Party left me.
You're in your 30s, aren't you? I don't see how the GOP could ever have been a valid option for a thinking man of that age?
Now granted the GOP has reached a totally new level of idiocy in recent years but come on...
You've been voting for less than 20 years I guess? Did Bob Dole excite you?
No. I voted twice for Bill Clinton, and happily so. Bush 41 was a stultifying disappointment and Bob Dole---to be kind---was a tired, archaic old fart with stale ideas whereas President Clinton was a fairly successful centrist chief executive who headed up a good and rapidly growing economy.
You do realize that the Republicans did control Congress for 6 of Clintons 8 years don't you? Everything like the balanced budgets and welfare reform was passed by a Republican congress and signed by Clinton.
I see women has having a right to choose what happens inside their bodies. Just like you. Calling it "abortion right" is disingenuous at best, and willingly obfuscating the issue with appeals to emotion at worst.
What do you think the military budget of the US is spent unto? Pretty flowers and animal balloons?
You argued about the Democratic party being opposed to "manned space exploration". You made a scientific endeavour into a political tool for your own agenda.
You would not vote for a party "committed to advancing and protecting minority groups". You would not vote for a party which is "pro labour". What is unclear?
In short, your own posts prove you wrong.
You're in your 30s, aren't you? I don't see how the GOP could ever have been a valid option for a thinking man of that age?
Now granted the GOP has reached a totally new level of idiocy in recent years but come on...
You've been voting for less than 20 years I guess? Did Bob Dole excite you?
No. I voted twice for Bill Clinton, and happily so. Bush 41 was a stultifying disappointment and Bob Dole---to be kind---was a tired, archaic old fart with stale ideas whereas President Clinton was a fairly successful centrist chief executive who headed up a good and rapidly growing economy.
You do realize that the Republicans did control Congress for 6 of Clintons 8 years don't you? Everything like the balanced budgets and welfare reform was passed by a Republican congress and signed by Clinton.
It took both sides working together in concert to create the political and economic environment of 1995-2001. Bill Clinton deserves as much credit as the Gingrich-Dole Congress because he was willing to reach fair minded compromise with the GOP and come up with sensible centrist solutions. It wasn't all Congress in the late '90s. Bill Clinton had the leeway after the 1996 election to veto everything Gingrich, Dick Armey, Dole and Trent Lott sent to his desk but he didn't. He did what he felt was in the nation's best interests. That's why I consider him along with Ronald Reagan to be one of the two best Presidents of my lifetime.
Yet they still managed to completely destroy the health care reform.
You can always count on the GOP when it comes to this stuff.
