Ian Keldon
Fleet Captain
They started using the Phase II unis, and wasn't the damage done in BaF supposed to lead into the Phase II configuration?
What happened?
What happened?
Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise refit?
- Thread starter Ian Keldon
- Start date
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
Yeah I was curious myself. I would love to see Phase II Enterprise make its debut on the how to go along with the Phase II outfits.
Yeah I was curious myself. I would love to see Phase II Enterprise make its debut on the how to go along with the Phase II outfits.
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
Yes, we've explained it a few times--even here on the TrekBBS:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=3343699
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=3635647
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=5273996
The short answer: there's far more interest in continuing to see the old Enterprise than there is in seeing a refit version.
Yes, we've explained it a few times--even here on the TrekBBS:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=3343699
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=3635647
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=5273996
The short answer: there's far more interest in continuing to see the old Enterprise than there is in seeing a refit version.
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
It would be interesting to see Enterprise rendezvous with another starship that has had the Phase II refit as a kind of foreshadowing of the E's TMP refit to come.
It would be interesting to see Enterprise rendezvous with another starship that has had the Phase II refit as a kind of foreshadowing of the E's TMP refit to come.
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
If another ship went to refit first, then how was it that Engineering had so much trouble balancing the warp engines in TMP? Even if things got rushed near the end of dry dock time, if there were other refitted ships, you'd think that by consulting their logs, the issues would be known. In contrast, the impression that I got from the TMP dialog, about needing further simulation, was that the whole design was experimental, and 1701 was the first ship refitted, at least to that degree.
If another ship went to refit first, then how was it that Engineering had so much trouble balancing the warp engines in TMP? Even if things got rushed near the end of dry dock time, if there were other refitted ships, you'd think that by consulting their logs, the issues would be known. In contrast, the impression that I got from the TMP dialog, about needing further simulation, was that the whole design was experimental, and 1701 was the first ship refitted, at least to that degree.
Ian Keldon
Fleet Captain
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
There are significant differences between the Phase II configuration and the TMP configuration. Esp if you go with the test footage of the Engineering room that shows up from time to time, the Warp Core is very different, for example.
IIRC the thinking back in the 70s/early 80s was that they both represented different "subclasses" of refit.
There are significant differences between the Phase II configuration and the TMP configuration. Esp if you go with the test footage of the Engineering room that shows up from time to time, the Warp Core is very different, for example.
IIRC the thinking back in the 70s/early 80s was that they both represented different "subclasses" of refit.
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
The Phase II refit is different from the TMP one. It is far less extreme compared to the TMP Enterprise (though the TMP era refit isn't really all that extreme), and looks like an intermediate between the TOS and TMP Enterprise, because that's frankly what it was in the design phase before they decided to do a film instead of a show.
Though another problem is that its just frankly not canon. There was no indication anywhere in the canon that that design came out whenever it would before the TMP refit, and canon has it that you go straight from the TOS design to the TMP refit.
Now, concerning the fan series Phase II, I had mixed feelings on the refit. I think it would be nifty to see, but I like the TOS Constitution, and again, canon seems to pretty well have it that that design lasted up until that refit for the motion picture. And I think once the Enterprise were refitted to that Phase II refit, then its no longer TOS. I'd be ok seeing another ship have the refit as a test bed for the full fledged refit design later on, but I like the TOS Enterprise.
The Phase II refit is different from the TMP one. It is far less extreme compared to the TMP Enterprise (though the TMP era refit isn't really all that extreme), and looks like an intermediate between the TOS and TMP Enterprise, because that's frankly what it was in the design phase before they decided to do a film instead of a show.
Though another problem is that its just frankly not canon. There was no indication anywhere in the canon that that design came out whenever it would before the TMP refit, and canon has it that you go straight from the TOS design to the TMP refit.
Now, concerning the fan series Phase II, I had mixed feelings on the refit. I think it would be nifty to see, but I like the TOS Constitution, and again, canon seems to pretty well have it that that design lasted up until that refit for the motion picture. And I think once the Enterprise were refitted to that Phase II refit, then its no longer TOS. I'd be ok seeing another ship have the refit as a test bed for the full fledged refit design later on, but I like the TOS Enterprise.
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
I guess I'm confused about what refit it is we're talking about. Having seen Scotty (was it in Blood and Fire?) in a radiation suit that looked just like a TMP/TWOK suit, I figured (rightly or wrongly) that NV/P2 intended to be moving straight towards movie era tech at some pace, be it fast or slow.
And, yeah, furthermore, canonically, the Phase II TV show never happened. The NV/P2 fan series has a blank slate to choose from, for its version of what to consider canonical in this time period.
I guess I'm confused about what refit it is we're talking about. Having seen Scotty (was it in Blood and Fire?) in a radiation suit that looked just like a TMP/TWOK suit, I figured (rightly or wrongly) that NV/P2 intended to be moving straight towards movie era tech at some pace, be it fast or slow.
And, yeah, furthermore, canonically, the Phase II TV show never happened. The NV/P2 fan series has a blank slate to choose from, for its version of what to consider canonical in this time period.
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
They are, but the Phase II Enterprise would be part of that gradual development as well. You could probably google Phase II Enterprise to see what it looks like. It's the TOS Enterprise with a modified body, and TMP style nacelles and pylons. The deflector is also sunken in, so it is no longer a protruding dish but an inset one.
That is a factor as well; them deciding what they want to make for the canon in lieu of anything solid saying something isn't possible. Still, it seems pretty well inferred that the TOS Enterprise was refitted directly to the TMP one, with no intermediary refit, or at least not one as extreme as the Phase II Enterprise. TAS, for example, covers that 2269-2270 period, and it's Enterprise remains TOS (though its canon is suspect, I know).
They are, but the Phase II Enterprise would be part of that gradual development as well. You could probably google Phase II Enterprise to see what it looks like. It's the TOS Enterprise with a modified body, and TMP style nacelles and pylons. The deflector is also sunken in, so it is no longer a protruding dish but an inset one.
That is a factor as well; them deciding what they want to make for the canon in lieu of anything solid saying something isn't possible. Still, it seems pretty well inferred that the TOS Enterprise was refitted directly to the TMP one, with no intermediary refit, or at least not one as extreme as the Phase II Enterprise. TAS, for example, covers that 2269-2270 period, and it's Enterprise remains TOS (though its canon is suspect, I know).
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
I agree. In the real world, all Phase II development was folded into TMP; what was to have been Phase II became TMP instead. Hence, why I agree with your inference.
If one takes what's on screen in TAS at literal face value, and not e.g. as a cartoon version of what was depicted in TOS, then Engineering was modified from TOS, just for starters by introducing that clear graduated cylinder. If so inclined, one could also fairly interpret TOS as depicting gradual modifications to Engineering all along, too. (On the other hand, one could also fairly argue that early depictions of Engineering simply hadn't been fully fleshed out. There are various reasonable camps on this issue.)
Somewhere someone on the BBS, I forget exactly where, proposed that the TAS graduated cyliner was a step towards exposing more of the glowing pipe things to a shirt sleeve environment, finally seen full glory in TMP. I kinda like that idea.
I agree. In the real world, all Phase II development was folded into TMP; what was to have been Phase II became TMP instead. Hence, why I agree with your inference.
If one takes what's on screen in TAS at literal face value, and not e.g. as a cartoon version of what was depicted in TOS, then Engineering was modified from TOS, just for starters by introducing that clear graduated cylinder. If so inclined, one could also fairly interpret TOS as depicting gradual modifications to Engineering all along, too. (On the other hand, one could also fairly argue that early depictions of Engineering simply hadn't been fully fleshed out. There are various reasonable camps on this issue.)
Somewhere someone on the BBS, I forget exactly where, proposed that the TAS graduated cyliner was a step towards exposing more of the glowing pipe things to a shirt sleeve environment, finally seen full glory in TMP. I kinda like that idea.
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
I agree. It would be cool to see the TOS Enterprise in a shot with this vessel. It could easily be a test bed ship for new designs. It was a proposed design for Phase II, which of course was never used as the movie used a different model. It is different enough from the TMP Enterprise that it doesn't go against the idea of the movie Enterprise being the first ship to get a refit of it's kind. I'm sure other ships were tested on to various degress before Enterprise got her big refit.
Another possibilty would be to use it for a "mirror universe" episode. Kirk VS Kirk... would be pretty cool
I agree. It would be cool to see the TOS Enterprise in a shot with this vessel. It could easily be a test bed ship for new designs. It was a proposed design for Phase II, which of course was never used as the movie used a different model. It is different enough from the TMP Enterprise that it doesn't go against the idea of the movie Enterprise being the first ship to get a refit of it's kind. I'm sure other ships were tested on to various degress before Enterprise got her big refit.
Another possibilty would be to use it for a "mirror universe" episode. Kirk VS Kirk... would be pretty cool
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
Meh, I'm one of those who saw no reason to transition the Phase 2 Enterprise into Phase II. I don't see any need to transition the uniforms either. YMMV, of course.
Meh, I'm one of those who saw no reason to transition the Phase 2 Enterprise into Phase II. I don't see any need to transition the uniforms either. YMMV, of course.
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
I don't see any reason to change the ship either, though it would be nice to see them continue the signs of the in-universe time moving on. Like the 60's style of bright strong colors slowly falling out of fashion, in favor of the more organic and yet industrial look during the TMP era.
It's not that different from how present-day navies around the world progress by slowly phasing out old equipment in favor of more modern one, systems upgrades which are divided into minor and major ones and several years apart and some stuff simply isn't upgraded on older ships at all.
I don't see any reason to change the ship either, though it would be nice to see them continue the signs of the in-universe time moving on. Like the 60's style of bright strong colors slowly falling out of fashion, in favor of the more organic and yet industrial look during the TMP era.
It's not that different from how present-day navies around the world progress by slowly phasing out old equipment in favor of more modern one, systems upgrades which are divided into minor and major ones and several years apart and some stuff simply isn't upgraded on older ships at all.
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
Considering the colorful sets in TWOK, maybe they didn't necessarily fall out of fashion.
Remember, the Enterprise was rushed into service unfinished. The interior decorators were due next Tuesday.
Considering the colorful sets in TWOK, maybe they didn't necessarily fall out of fashion.
Remember, the Enterprise was rushed into service unfinished. The interior decorators were due next Tuesday.
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
The Trek 2-4 trilogy OTOH is a product of the 80's, where different trends were emerging.
The flashy colors of TOS were a result of the emerging color TV market. The entertainment industry wanted to show off and the electronics companies needed colorful stuff on the air to get people to invest in the technology.
TMP is a relic of the 70's, just like P2 TV show with its toned-down colors would've been and it shows in the production design.
The Trek 2-4 trilogy OTOH is a product of the 80's, where different trends were emerging.
The flashy colors of TOS were a result of the emerging color TV market. The entertainment industry wanted to show off and the electronics companies needed colorful stuff on the air to get people to invest in the technology.
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
Patience, young padawan... (sorry, wrong franchise)
Patience, young padawan... (sorry, wrong franchise)
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
You are working on it right now, aren't you?
You are working on it right now, aren't you?
Re: Did Phase II ever explain why they backed off on the Enterprise re
Oh, I hope it's true. I was so disappointed when Phase 2 backed away from the slightly revamped enterprise.
Oh, I hope it's true. I was so disappointed when Phase 2 backed away from the slightly revamped enterprise.
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