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Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Caretaker?

Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

It would have been exactly the same other than a nova-class ship with VOYAGER written on it would have been flying around instead of an intrepid-class one.

Everything would have remained exactly the same.

Still would've been stranded in the Delta Quadrant at the end.
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

How would the smaller crew size of a Nova class have affected the initial run-in with the Caretaker? Assuming, roughly, they have half as many members as Voyager, the scanning and prepping should've taken less time; and if nothing else would've given them more time afterwards to repair and rig the array.
Voyager was a casualty of timing. Voyager was the last ship the Caretaker brought to the Delta Quadrant, presumably after bringing dozens of other ships over the past several months. So unless you alter the premise of the show, Voyager-Nova would still have been the last ship, and would still have been unable to convince the Caretaker to send them back to the Alpha Quadrant.

The only difference might be that Voyager-Nova wouldn't have a tricobalt device, so the Kazon might have been able to get control of the station. But then again they might not have started a firefight either that resulted in the self-destruct sequence getting damaged.

I maintain that Kirk and Picard would both have figured out a way to get back to the AQ.
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

I maintain that Kirk and Picard would both have figured out a way to get back to the AQ.
Picard: "Q! Get us out of here! I don't want to play any more."
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

Why should Star Fleet put in more than defensive armament?

OK, the class is obviously armed, but this design was not intended for front-line combat. More/bigger weaponry = less space for the equipment needed for it to perform its primary function. This is a science ship, not a battlewagon.

I think that SF had ample reasons to arm it's science vessels better.
Given their rather unfortunate history of being attacked and practically stomped over by potential hostiles... they would be wise to arm them properly. They don't have to be able to last in combat situations like other classes, just long enough to deter a hostile if possible, or give themselves a chance to make a run for it if they can't beat them (much like Ransom did in his battle with Voyager).

General agreement. But note that this design was intended for "safe" areas anyhow, so arming it to the teeth would probably be overdoing things.

We've seen a few science ships buy the farm in Trek, but how many does Star Fleet actually have overall? Dozens? Hundreds? Being taken out in a surprise attack by hostiles might be quite rare or, at least, not the greatest danger that such ships usually face - the equivalent of walking down the street and getting hit by lightning.

The Nova class has 9 visible phaser strips on it's hull.
That is sufficient to cover most of the ship (albeit the aft section could do with 2 more strips - one on each nacelle pylon).
'Bigger weapons' don't necessarily mean that Type X phasers require more internal room than other types.
It simply could mean that the core needs to be up to the task of supplying necessary power under combat situations - and I see no reason as to why it couldn't.

Ptovided it has the space and support structure. More power means a bigger powerplant and (more than likely) more personnel needed to keep it running, and possibly bigger thingummies (plasma conduits? I dunno) to move the power from where it is made to where it is needed.

Whilst possibly not the case here, many present-day navies have ships "Fitted For, But Not With" certain systems - they have the space allocated, but may only fitted with those systems in times of genuine need.

Keep in mind that most smaller ships predating the Galaxy, Defiant, Voyager and Nova classes would have less powerful phasers in say Type 8 or Type 9 forms.
As new phaser types were developed, newer classes built of that time were probably able in receiving them if they can meet the power requirements (and with SF's decision in making smaller but powerful ships as a result of Borg threat, and later on the Dominion, I don't see the issue - they obviously found a way to do it with the Defiant, so why not other classes as well?).

I also don't see how could ample phaser coverage derail a science vessel from it's primary duties.
The two functions aren't mutually exclusive. Maybe it was because of this that the Nova class has weaker shields but say Type X phasers.
They can deliver equal damage like the Intrepid and Galaxy class, but last significantly less time under combat conditions due to other factors (science oriented tasks, only capable of Warp 6 and weaker shields).

Trade-offs.

Every design has them. Beef up one system or capability, and others will pay for it in terms of less personnel, having to take up less space, less available power and/or computer resources, and so on.

Noting that she kind of had the advantage of surprise, and Voyager was rather handicapped in subsequent engagements.

Please note that "it's" is only used for "it is". For everything else, it's "its".

Agreed that Voyager was rather handicapped at the time, but the Equinox was under equal stress from it's previous damage (patched up for the most part).

Plus I don't think that my use of 'it's' has significant relevance in this discussion. I see it mostly as personal preference (and please, let's not derail the thread by talking about it anymore because it would serve no purpose).

How about because, for me, it is distracting and annoying? Think it has all been said already, so we'll move on.
 
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Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

Here's the sad thing.

Despite my hugely popular "Janeway is a Monster" supposition.

In all likeliness, she was still trying not to hurt the Kazon too badly.

Even when provoked and backed into a corner, Starfleet still shoots to wound.

She was playing with kid gloves, because Kathy didn't see the kazon as a significant threat, and from a legal stand point, she wasn't allowed to treat them like Romulans inside the Neutral Zone.

"I'm not left handed either!"

It's like with cops in a student riot.

Sure they'll thump an econ major in the stomach, or go fore with a head but, but it's quite illegal and immoral to toss a grenade into that mess of freshmen hippies no matter how much more efficient an answer to the question explosives are. Hell, even the Chinese took a while to be sensible back in 1990.

In the game of rock paper scissors, Student does not beat Tank.

If Janeway wanted to kill those Kazon in the first few seconds of combat, Voyager even crippled as it was, was more than up to the task.

But then she would be guilty of mass murder, and after being so bloody impressive, there was a small chance the surviving Kazon could have asked her to be Queen or started worshipping Kathryn as God.

Which is an entirely new ballpark.

Screwing with Prime Directive.

The transporters alone could have spaced their Maje, the crew or their warp Core, and that's not even if Voyager Strafed the Cormaline refinery on Ocampa to leverage the kazon into a stand down and peaceful negotiation (Siskos game book.).

That's Janeways excuse.

What was Chakotays?

Too fricking civilized for his own good, lost his damn ship on principle.

Oh.

I had a point.

In an Intrepid, Janeway was going easy on the thug savages posturing in front of her, but in a Nova Class vessel, our friend the Captain might have weighed her options and decided that the Kazon might have a snowballs chance in hell at making headway against her, so she was going to have to treat they like a serious threat (Romulans in the Neutral Zone!), and reduce these bastards to ash post haste.

Of course that means that Caretakler self destruct wouldn't have been knocked off line.

But like hell Tuvok couldn't hurtlocker that frakk if he had to.
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

Not really, since it seemed the entire crew was processed at once - on the other hand it looks like no one on Equinox was genetically compatible (although it does beg the question who told them the Caretaker's name...) so a smaller crew might have meant no rescue mission?
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

According to the episode where the Doctor went mental and was reliving his life with Barclay... It took Caretaker three days to Process Voyagers crew, and according to the pilot, Caretaker used Ocampa as a Hospice where he routinely sent his rape victims to die slowly and probably painfully of their sporocistiean semen allergy.

If they'd just had the good sense to wear a medic alert bracelet, Caretaker would have... MIGHT have kept his dong in his pants.

Seriously.

People die when he has sex with them %100 of the time.

Who does he think he is?

The final days of John Holmes?
 
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