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Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Caretaker?

Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

Did we see Equinox's Engineering?

Was their intermix chamber so much smaller?

But most everything used less power on Equinox because there was just less of "it".

Mass to Power (So subjective!) the ships would have to be on an even keel unless the Nova Class is a much older design, that is smaller and less efficient relying on older less intelligent technology.
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

Did we see Equinox's Engineering?

Was their intermix chamber so much smaller?

Certainly much less room / volume to put it. Equinox was a lot smaller than Voyager.

But most everything used less power on Equinox because there was just less of "it".

Mass to Power (So subjective!) the ships would have to be on an even keel unless the Nova Class is a much older design, that is smaller and less efficient relying on older less intelligent technology.

This line of reasoning would seem to say that running a Dreadnought off of a Destroyer power plant would be practical. I doubt it.

Bigger power plant equals (presumably) more juice. Maybe smaller power plants have better power to weight ratios - and maybe not (the opposite could also be true). But in the end, efficiency by itself will only get you so far - quantity is important too.
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

Nevertheless, the Defiant for it's small size is able to match larger ships.
It's optional to think the Nova would incorporate similar design implementations... although, it's not very 'cramped' like the Defiant - has a lot roomier interior.
So it's possible it's weapons were on par with the Intrepid and Galaxy class, but shields were weaker in comparison.

The defiant had no creature comforts of any kind - which probably helped it's power output.
The Intrepid had a minimalist amount of creature comforts compared to the Galaxy class and can afford being it's equal in all departments power-wise, except size and torpedo count.
The Nova has a much more elaborate interior design compared to the Defiant, and while it can probably house powerful weapons, it's shields were likely less pungent.
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

I find it unlikely that the Equinox would have even close to the Defiant's firepower. It's a simple science vessell, nothing more. It's not designed for tactical use, unlike the Defiant which is very much a warship.

The Nova class would have nothing more than defensive weapons, what need would it have for anything more?
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

The Defiant was a combat ship, pure and simple. No comforts, no extras, minimal scientific facilties (if any). no facilities for long-duration voyages. Her primary mission was to go hurt the enemy and come back, and everything about her design was all about just that and no more. Yes, Sisko & Co used her for more than that, but for any job that did not involve blasting the enemy, they were at an automatic disadvantage.

The Nova class has always been referred to as a science ship. Now, for Klingon ships, this would probably mean shoot first and analyze the ashes afterwards. Since the Novas are Federation ships, the most likely inference is that scientific research is the primary mission for science ships. So, rather than load up on hardware that would help them slug it out with a Borg Cube, emphasis would be instead given to carrying and using science-y stuff - research labs, better sensors, sample bays, more "science" functions on the Ship's Computer, and so on, plus the people to use those things.

Furthermore, according to the Star Trek Wiki and what was actually said on VOY, the Novas were intended for short-duration planetary research missions in relatively "safe" areas, not for going into harm's way. So, certain other systems (such as weapons and shields) would be basic-to-standard level of capability; not state-of-the-art, take-all-comers, optimized-to-the-max, frontline-issue.

The Intrepid class was about versatility. Again, allegedly not intended for long-duration missions, but able to take on a variety of tasks in risky environments - pretty much what we tend to associate Star Fleet with doing anyhow. Noting that Voyager's first mission was go into an especially dangerous part of space (that also bordered on some very unpleasant people) to chase renegades.

Quite different designs, quite different missions.

A Defiant COULD go into the Badlands to chase Maquis, and be able to kick the @$$ of anything it met - but it would probably not have had the science gear to figure out any phenomena encountered there, or the equipment and personnel to carry out any rescues that might have been called for.
A Nova might check out worlds in less wild parts of the Badlands but, considering what they were built for, that would be at the outer limits of what the class was intended for.
 
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Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

The Defiant was a war-ship.
Stated to be 'overpowered' for it's size.
Translation: SF probably managed to get it's tactical systems to match those of larger ships in a smaller design by getting rid of luxuries and creature comforts.
That however doesn't make it more powerful than the Intrepid or Galaxy class ships (it actually makes it equally powerful).
Why?
Because for one thing, it went into the battle with the Dominion bugs with anti-borg systems (which the Oddysey was never mentioned having) and was probably one of the reasons why it was so effective.
If it had no such systems incorporated, even being more powerful than a Galaxy class couldn't have made it effective against the bug ships.
Keep in mind the Dominion was fully aware of SF tactical capabilities and had ample time to modify their ships until the first encounter with the Oddysey played out (in Dominions favor no less) and SF at the time knew next to nothing about their level of technology.

As for the Nova class... yes, mentioned to be a science vessel, but that doesn't mean it's weapons would be dingy.
If anything (even though I realize it's not canon), the makers of Voyager stated that it has Type X phasers.
Given it's new design, why wouldn't SF construct science type ships to be combat-capable?

My point was that the Defiant being overpowered for it's size (because of 0 creature comforts or luxuries) analogy could be applied to smaller ships equaling larger ones in terms of tactical/defensive capabilities.
The Nova class theoretically could posses equally powerful weapons like large ships such as the Intrepid or the Galaxy class... but lacking in shield power and speed (maximum Warp velocity of Warp 6) and of course having potentially superior sensors.

Voyager can rival the Galaxy in both shield/weapons (except torpedo count - though I doubt 36 is it's maximum) given it's larger size compared to the Defiant while having a minimal amount of creature comforts (2 holodecks, possible 1 gym, and 1 small mess-hall) - it can get away with 'some' creature comforts (basics) and doesn't have to feature 'cramped style' like the Defiant to accomplish the same task.
The Galaxy class on the other hand has schools, much more elaborate recreational facilities, higher requirements on life-supports - in short, it's size makes it a mini-city (Intrepids can therefore match them in shields/phasers power output and outclass them in speed - while smaller ships could match them in phasers only, but not in shield power because of the more elaborate interior design and dedication towards science).

Given the battles we saw of Voyager vs the Nova class.. the small ship certainly held on it's own before it went down and would have made an excellent addition for future combat situations.
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

As for the Nova class... yes, mentioned to be a science vessel, but that doesn't mean it's weapons would be dingy.
If anything (even though I realize it's not canon), the makers of Voyager stated that it has Type X phasers.
Given it's new design, why wouldn't SF construct science type ships to be combat-capable?

Why should Star Fleet put in more than defensive armament?

OK, the class is obviously armed, but this design was not intended for front-line combat. More/bigger weaponry = less space for the equipment needed for it to perform its primary function. This is a science ship, not a battlewagon.

Given the battles we saw of Voyager vs the Nova class the small ship certainly held on it's own before it went down and would have made an excellent addition for future combat situations.

Noting that she kind of had the advantage of surprise, and Voyager was rather handicapped in subsequent engagements.

Please note that "it's" is only used for "it is". For everything else, it's "its".
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

Why should Star Fleet put in more than defensive armament?

OK, the class is obviously armed, but this design was not intended for front-line combat. More/bigger weaponry = less space for the equipment needed for it to perform its primary function. This is a science ship, not a battlewagon.

I think that SF had ample reasons to arm it's science vessels better.
Given their rather unfortunate history of being attacked and practically stomped over by potential hostiles... they would be wise to arm them properly. They don't have to be able to last in combat situations like other classes, just long enough to deter a hostile if possible, or give themselves a chance to make a run for it if they can't beat them (much like Ransom did in his battle with Voyager).

The Nova class has 9 visible phaser strips on it's hull.
That is sufficient to cover most of the ship (albeit the aft section could do with 2 more strips - one on each nacelle pylon).
'Bigger weapons' don't necessarily mean that Type X phasers require more internal room than other types.
It simply could mean that the core needs to be up to the task of supplying necessary power under combat situations - and I see no reason as to why it couldn't.

Keep in mind that most smaller ships predating the Galaxy, Defiant, Voyager and Nova classes would have less powerful phasers in say Type 8 or Type 9 forms.
As new phaser types were developed, newer classes built of that time were probably able in receiving them if they can meet the power requirements (and with SF's decision in making smaller but powerful ships as a result of Borg threat, and later on the Dominion, I don't see the issue - they obviously found a way to do it with the Defiant, so why not other classes as well?).

I also don't see how could ample phaser coverage derail a science vessel from it's primary duties.
The two functions aren't mutually exclusive. Maybe it was because of this that the Nova class has weaker shields but say Type X phasers.
They can deliver equal damage like the Intrepid and Galaxy class, but last significantly less time under combat conditions due to other factors (science oriented tasks, only capable of Warp 6 and weaker shields).

Noting that she kind of had the advantage of surprise, and Voyager was rather handicapped in subsequent engagements.

Please note that "it's" is only used for "it is". For everything else, it's "its".

Agreed that Voyager was rather handicapped at the time, but the Equinox was under equal stress from it's previous damage (patched up for the most part).

Plus I don't think that my use of 'it's' has significant relevance in this discussion. I see it mostly as personal preference (and please, let's not derail the thread by talking about it anymore because it would serve no purpose).
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

It's vs its isn't personal preference, it's basic grammar!

It's is a contraction ie it is

Its is appropriate for all other times!
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

I generally considered the Nova Class ship to be the 24th century equivelant of the Oberth Class
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

I generally considered the Nova Class ship to be the 24th century equivalent of the Oberth Class

I can agree with that - it seems like a reasonable enough assessment given how it was depicted.
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

It's vs its isn't personal preference, it's basic grammar!

It's is a contraction ie it is

Its is appropriate for all other times!

Are you seriously pursuing this?
Very well...

I know that its a contraction of 'it is'.
English is not my first language and as a result, grammar can be flimsy at times in online discussions when it comes to minor aspects (especially when I speed-write).
I grew accustomed to using 'it's' instead of 'its' out of habit because they are stupidly similar/same in pronunciation (hence, 'proper' use of it eludes me at times).

Oh and, just how many Americans or British individuals for that matter make spelling mistakes or grammar errors far severe than mine without being chastised in the process?

Now... let it go.
 
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Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

It wasn't intended to be 'scary' - merely that it is a bit of a time wasting (not to mention borderline immature) to be hung up on something so trivial (which doesn't necessarily exclude the option of me not explaining my position) that's not even part of the main discussion - and should be dropped before it derails the thread.
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

Oh and, just how many Americans or British individuals for that matter make spelling mistakes or grammar errors far severe than mine without being chastised in the process?
Less Americans or British make the mistake than would if we let all grammar/syntax errors slide. Notice the rapid decline in language skills with the advent of texting.
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

Oh and, just how many Americans or British individuals for that matter make spelling mistakes or grammar errors far severe than mine without being chastised in the process?
Less Americans or British make the mistake than would if we let all grammar/syntax errors slide. Notice the rapid decline in language skills with the advent of texting.

The point was that mistakes such as the ones that happened in my case are minor at best, and that usually, I pay attention to the grammar.
In case of texting messages, I prefer writing full sentences (with proper grammar).
There is a difference between making a minor mistake when writing full/coherent sentences and downright 'butchering' (at least in my perception) of the language down to levels where you can barely understand what the other person was saying, let alone meant.
 
Re: Could Janeway've gotten a Nova Class Science Ship back from Careta

Going back to the original point of the thread...


How would the smaller crew size of a Nova class have affected the initial run-in with the Caretaker? Assuming, roughly, they have half as many members as Voyager, the scanning and prepping should've taken less time; and if nothing else would've given them more time afterwards to repair and rig the array.

Right?
 
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