soundtrack for Trek XII - Michael Giacchino

[tighr]

Also, I think when a producer hires one of these composers to score his movie, he knows the sound he's going after. So, maybe these guys aren't so much repetitive in their compositions as consistent? Known quantities. A brand. Predictable. Reliable. The "Giacchino sound," the "Horner sound," the "Elfman sound," just like the Beach Boys or the Beatles or Benny Goodman each had a sound.

Oh man, I'd love to watch a Star Trek movie scored by Danny Elfman. I think that would be epic!

 

[DonIago]

(shudder)

 

[beamMe]

While we are throwing names around... Oscar Araujo wrote pretty good music for Castlevania: Lords of Shadow.

 

[Ian Keldon]

That's what Jerry Goldsmith did for TMP. It's one of the reasons I liked the TMP soundtrack, and it's one of the reasons I like this one.

NO, he did not. Not the way Giacchino does, with the same arrangement and orchestration EVERY damn time he uses it.

Goldsmith reused his melody, yes, but in vastly different orchestrations...

Switching from french horns to violins is "vastly different" to you? Okay, whatever.

Different instruments, different timing, different "tone".

Obviously you don't understand what "orchestrations" are.

 

[Ian Keldon]

Also, I think when a producer hires one of these composers to score his movie, he knows the sound he's going after. So, maybe these guys aren't so much repetitive in their compositions as consistent? Known quantities. A brand. Predictable. Reliable. The "Giacchino sound," the "Horner sound," the "Elfman sound," just like the Beach Boys or the Beatles or Benny Goodman each had a sound.

There is truth in that. Each composer does tend to have a "trademark sound".

 

[CoveTom]

Did Goldsmith reuse the theme several times during TMP? Yes, of course. But do you think that the "Main Titles" version and the "The Enterprise" version and the "Leaving Drydock" version are repetitive? They use the same theme, but are very different.

Further, take note of the fact that the moment the Enterprise encounters V'Ger, the main theme goes away and the music changes drastically. Not until the Enterprise emerges at the conclusion of the film do we hear the main theme again.

Goldsmith's TMP score is quite varied.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Goldsmith did vary the music in TMP, just as Giacchino did in 2009. Sure there were the blaring sections of the music, just as that theme was used in softer tones, as well as using different instruments for the Vulcan sounding themes in the movie.

However, if you want to go beyond one movie, Goldsmith recycled a lot in the other Trek movies he scored, right down to instrumentation.

 

[tighr]

I really liked Horner's TWOK score. I think that movie came together quite nicely, and the themes he used add something different to each scene.

 

[DonIago]

Oh, I'm one of those unpopular types who prefers Horner's Trek music to Goldsmith's (without consideration for recycling from/into other films). I think in part it's because between TNG and other Trek movies the main theme just got very, very tiresome to me.

I suspect in a world where the TMP music stands on its own terms, without recycling, my opinion of it overall is higher. Yes, that's unfair.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Also, I think when a producer hires one of these composers to score his movie, he knows the sound he's going after. So, maybe these guys aren't so much repetitive in their compositions as consistent? Known quantities. A brand. Predictable. Reliable. The "Giacchino sound," the "Horner sound," the "Elfman sound," just like the Beach Boys or the Beatles or Benny Goodman each had a sound.

Oh man, I'd love to watch a Star Trek movie scored by Danny Elfman. I think that would be epic!

I imagine it would sound a lot like TUC.

 

[beamMe]

Also, I think when a producer hires one of these composers to score his movie, he knows the sound he's going after. So, maybe these guys aren't so much repetitive in their compositions as consistent? Known quantities. A brand. Predictable. Reliable. The "Giacchino sound," the "Horner sound," the "Elfman sound," just like the Beach Boys or the Beatles or Benny Goodman each had a sound.

Oh man, I'd love to watch a Star Trek movie scored by Danny Elfman. I think that would be epic!

I imagine it would sound a lot like TUC.

I don't think I've heard anything from Elfman that sounded like Eidelman's TUC-score.

 

[RedShirtNoob]

Get a REAL composer in who knows how to write more than one theme. A Goldsmith type would be great, or even a Horner would be a vast improvement. Someone who knows how to write more than one significant piece of music and tailor it to the mood of the moement.

Someone has been posting under the influence of Romulan Ale.


"Goldsmith’s score is a work of, dare I say, genius. Not simply a great sci-fi score, but a great film score, period. Every succeeding musical entry in the STAR TREK franchise has been unfairly (yet understandably) compared to Goldsmith’s lightning rod and found wanting. The use of Goldsmith’s main theme for STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION TV series only further cemented the score’s classic reputation outside the film score fanbase, creating ridiculous expectations for later composers."
Source: http://www.filmscoreclicktrack.com/2009/05/cd-review-star-trek-2009/


Trek 2009 is not TMP. Star Trek TMP was TOS on a grand scale; it was an attempt at reproducing all the qualities of TOS in grandiose fashion for the big screen. A fully orchestrated score suited the "grand" nature of the project.

Trek 2009 is a completely different beast. The camera never rests and it's narrative races at warp speed (pun intention inconsequential). There is never time to wait with the camera on an establishing shot while a particular track evokes a mood in the traditional sense. Instead the audio of Trek 2009 is a collaboration between its score and its sound design. The mood is evoked by portions of the score and the abrupt absence of it in favor of eerie and/or mysterious tones in correlation with the mood of a given scene (Refer to Nero's first encounter with the Enterprise).

Despite this, there are tracks present outside of the main "TAAA-DA-DA-DA-DAAAA" theme that plays, befittingly, during scenes of high spirit. Nero's theme alone invalidates any claim of a completely repetitious and monotonous score. Such a work would not have been nominated for a Grammy.

I find the blame directed towards Michael Giacchino for the (supposed) misuse of his score in Star Trek to be highly unjustified. The creation of a film's score is the duty of it's composer; it's implementation, however, is more the decision of the film's director/editor.

Alas... this is only my opinion, but one thing is a fact: Michael Giacchino is a REAL composer.

I do have one question though, Ian Keldon. Could you use your vast knowledge of music to identify this instrument for me?

 

[tighr]

Also, I think when a producer hires one of these composers to score his movie, he knows the sound he's going after. So, maybe these guys aren't so much repetitive in their compositions as consistent? Known quantities. A brand. Predictable. Reliable. The "Giacchino sound," the "Horner sound," the "Elfman sound," just like the Beach Boys or the Beatles or Benny Goodman each had a sound.

Oh man, I'd love to watch a Star Trek movie scored by Danny Elfman. I think that would be epic!

I imagine it would sound a lot like TUC.

I can't fathom why you would say this.

I imagine it would sound more like Spider-Man, Batman, Bettlejuice, and Edward Scissorhands than TUC. It would certainly be something completely different from anything we've ever heard in a Star Trek film, which might actually be good for the franchise.

 

[DonIago]

^^No reason to get insulting.

 

[Ian Keldon]

I do have one question though, Ian Keldon. Could you use your vast knowledge of music to identify this instrument for me?

I can, but I prefer to let the mods deal with trolls.

 

[tighr]

^^No reason to get insulting.

Is that aimed at me? Not sure what I said that sounded like an insult.

 

[M'Sharak]

^^No reason to get insulting.

Is that aimed at me? Not sure what I said that sounded like an insult.

Since your post and DonIago's have identical timestamps, I think it's safe to say that no, it wasn't aimed at you.

More in a minute or two, after I've had a chance to review some recent posts.


EDIT:

Okay - a few things. First:

http://arch.413chan.net/Stop_liking_what_I_don't_like-(n1315212424812).jpg

Personal taste as musical criticism. Fascinating.

While the point being made (that the proclamation of "inappropriate" given upthread was later demonstrated to be no more than one person's opinion of something he would have preferred were done differently) is not invalid and I get that it was posted this way for humorous effect, I should point out that modifying quoted post content isn't strictly kosher (other than for purposes of condensing to pertinent passages) and should generally be avoided.

Next:

[...]
I do have one question though, Ian Keldon. Could you use your vast knowledge of music to identify this instrument for me?

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u500/RedShirtWetPants/worldssmallestviolin.gif

RedShirtNoob, your post was really quite a good one overall. This last bit, however, adds nothing useful and is unnecessarily personal. Would be best if you were to skip that sort of thing in the future, 'K?


Next:

...

I can, but I prefer to let the mods deal with trolls.

Ian Keldon, once you stopped making pronouncements from atop your soapbox, climbed down and started discussing things with us regular folks, I felt like we were beginning to get somewhere. Stunts like this, however, are not so good. If there is something you feel needs looking at, you know to use the "Notify Moderator" button; once that button is pushed, then your part is finished. Trust that it will be reviewed and that any action deemed necessary will be taken in due course. Do not take it upon yourself to call out a supposed troll in-thread, as that practice has itself been known to draw warnings.


Now, then - upthread, Ian, you made this statement:

Obviously you don't understand what "orchestrations" are.

Still more condescending than is really beneficial to good discussion, but let's suppose, for the moment, that you do understand what orchestrations are and how they work. Now, suppose that there are at least one or two others participating in this thread who also have some knowledge of orchestration, and that there might be more people who would be able to grasp aspects of it if it were discussed in easily-explainable terms. From there, it should be entirely possible for you to elaborate upon some specifics of why you felt Giacchino's score was inappropriate and make some specific suggestions as to what you would have done differently for this scene or that, providing illustrative examples as needed.

If you can do that, then I think we may be able to get this discussion back on track and even to go somewhere interesting with it.

 

[RedShirtNoob]

This last bit, however, adds nothing useful and is unnecessarily personal. Would be best if you were to skip that sort of thing in the future, 'K?

I understand, agree and apologize.

 

[Ian Keldon]

Ian Keldon, once you stopped making pronouncements from atop your soapbox, climbed down and started discussing things with us regular folks, I felt like we were beginning to get somewhere. Stunts like this, however, are not so good. If there is something you feel needs looking at, you know to use the "Notify Moderator" button; once that button is pushed, then your part is finished. Trust that it will be reviewed and that any action deemed necessary will be taken in due course. Do not take it upon yourself to call out a supposed troll in-thread, as that practice has itself been known to draw warnings.

Fair enough. Duly noted.

Now, then - upthread, Ian, you made this statement:

Obviously you don't understand what "orchestrations" are.

Still more condescending than is really beneficial to good discussion, but let's suppose, for the moment, that you do understand what orchestrations are and how they work. Now, suppose that there are at least one or two others participating in this thread who also have some knowledge of orchestration, and that there might be more people who would be able to grasp aspects of it if it were discussed in easily-explainable terms. From there, it should be entirely possible for you to elaborate upon some specifics of why you felt Giacchino's score was inappropriate and make some specific suggestions as to what you would have done differently for this scene or that, providing illustrative examples as needed.

If you can do that, then I think we may be able to get this discussion back on track and even to go somewhere interesting with it.

Also fair enough.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say "arrangement" instead of "orchestration".

My point was that, while Goldsmith did in fact reuse the melody of the theme, the manner in which it was presented was entirely different, depending on the needs of the scene. He used a march arrangement where appropriate (as in the titles), a "love theme" arrangement in other scenes (Kirk approaching Enterprise), a "homecoming" version (last bridge scene), etc.

That is far different than what I hear from Giacchino where his "Kirk approaches Enterprise" theme is indistinguishable from his "Enterprise saves the day" theme in terms of arrangement almost down to the tempo.

I also don't like his overreliance on his brass section throughout the film. All the major drama cues are done brass-heavy, which makes for what feels like a "harsher" score.

If you want to argue that the scoring fits the more frenetic tempo of the editing/pacing of the film, I'll grant you might have a point. That said, I didn't particularly care for the cinematography or editing either.

I don't like the "modern" sensibility in cinema with "shakey cam", lens flares, overly jittery pacing, etc. It's an attempt to cobble together a style out of a series of bad directorial and editing choices. At best it's a fad, and I hope it dies out soon and we see the return of better filmmaking in it's wake.

 

[Ian Keldon]

This last bit, however, adds nothing useful and is unnecessarily personal. Would be best if you were to skip that sort of thing in the future, 'K?

I understand, agree and apologize.

Accepted and mine extended as well.