I'm Curious As To Why...

[GemHaters]

Aron Eisenberg and Max Grodenchick's names were never added to the opening sequence. And yet, Cirroc Lofton was, and even Nicole de Boer even thought she was only there for one season. Rom and Nog were just as much a part of the "main cast" as Jake was, even more so at times, yet there were never given the same "treatment". It might sound stupid, but it always confused me. Anyone else?

 

[DS9Continuing]

It's just all about contracts. Cirroc Lofton was signed to a six-year, regular cast contract when the show started, so he gets his name in the opening credits every week, regardless of how much screen time he gets. Aron and Max did not have that contract - they were only on recurring contracts, not regular. Simple as that.

Contracts like that are signed long before the show ever airs, and are based on what the show creators assume they're going to be able to do with the characters. They assumed - probably not unreasonably - that as the son of the lead character and station commander, Jake would be featured quite heavily, enough to justify the full-time contract. That it turned out not to be the case doesn't change the contract that was signed. The only way Cirroc would have left the main credits is if he officially resigned his full-time contract, which obviously he didn't do. Presumably he's not one of those actors who think they have to be the focus of attention at all times.

Conversely, being kept on a recurring contract - like the actors for Nog, Rom, Dukat, Weyoun, and endless others were - means that the actors are free to come and go as they please. They don't know when the writers are going to call on them for a script - because the writers themselves probably don't know - so they keep their options open by only signing on for one episode at a time, so that they can take other jobs if they feel the need. That means that sometimes the actor isn't available when the producers want him - Duncan Regehr's absence from "Rapture" for example - but on a quality show like DS9 I imagine most people, when they got the call, said "yes."

It's not just a matter of popping in and out of the credits based on the number of episodes you appear in - there's a whole big legal matter of contracts and agents and all sorts to take care of.

.

 

[GemHaters]

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

 

[Pavonis]

If DS9 had added every major character to the opening credits, they'd have had to add at least a dozen more names to the list.

Off the top of my head, in addition to Grodenchik and Eisenberg I'd add Marc Alaimo, Andrew Robinson, Casey Biggs, Jeffrey Combs, J.G. Hertzler, and Penny Johnson. All played important roles with more plot significance than Lofton's Jake. Hell, even the guy that played Morn appeared in more episodes than Lofton, and he never had any lines!

Not that I'd have Jake removed from the cast. The character was a nice contrast to Wes Crusher.

 

[7thsealord]

Hell, even the guy that played Morn appeared in more episodes than Lofton, and he never had any lines!

As I understand it, more than one actor played Morn.

 

[JoeD80]

Recurring guest stars negotiate episode-by-episode. In the main credits you contract for X episodes out of Y. As for Cirroc, he was on a 13 episode per season contract IIRC.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Hell, even the guy that played Morn appeared in more episodes than Lofton, and he never had any lines!

As I understand it, more than one actor played Morn.

No, it was always Marc Allan Sheppard.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Off the top of my head, in addition to Grodenchik and Eisenberg I'd add Marc Alaimo, Andrew Robinson, Casey Biggs, Jeffrey Combs, J.G. Hertzler, and Penny Johnson. All played important roles with more plot significance than Lofton's Jake. Hell, even the guy that played Morn appeared in more episodes than Lofton, and he never had any lines!

I suppose it's a mark of the popularity of the actors and the characters that so many people consider Martok, Damar and Weyoun to be such vital parts of the ensemble, when in fact each of them only first appeared in the 4th season and didn't become frequently recurring supporting characters until the 6th out of 7 seasons.

.

 

[GemHaters]

If DS9 had added every major character to the opening credits, they'd have had to add at least a dozen more names to the list.

Off the top of my head, in addition to Grodenchik and Eisenberg I'd add Marc Alaimo, Andrew Robinson, Casey Biggs, Jeffrey Combs, J.G. Hertzler, and Penny Johnson. All played important roles with more plot significance than Lofton's Jake. Hell, even the guy that played Morn appeared in more episodes than Lofton, and he never had any lines!

Not that I'd have Jake removed from the cast. The character was a nice contrast to Wes Crusher.

I understand what you're saying, but after a certain point Nog was way more involved with the show than Jake could even hope to be. He should have been shown a bit more respect.

 

[Zeppster]

Hell, even the guy that played Morn appeared in more episodes than Lofton, and he never had any lines!

As I understand it, more than one actor played Morn.

No, it was always Marc Allan Sheppard.

I'll have to look this up but I think they had some schedule conflict once and had to have a different guy play Morn that ep. Or maybe they just wrote Morn out of the ep. Can't remember which.

 

[Relayer1]

As Max Grodenchick phrased it when I asked him if he was glad he got the more sympathetic Rom character (he auditioned for Quark) :

'No - I still have to work, unlike Armin...'

 

[od0_ital]

Aron Eisenberg and Max Grodenchick's names were never added to the opening sequence. And yet, Cirroc Lofton was...

Well, ya started off on the wrong track.

Cirroc Lofton wasn't added to the credits - he was in the openin' credits from the beginnin' of the series.

Go back & watch the closin' credits of 'Emissary' - Max Grodenchik's Ferengi character didn't even have a name, he was just "Pit Boss." It was only later that the Ferengi pit boss was retconned to be Quark's brother/Nog's father.

But, as others have pointed out, there's main cast, folks guaranteed a paycheck, and recurrin' cast, folks who work in certain episodes. And if all of DS9's recurrin' cast (Hertzler, Combs, Alaimo, Biggs, Grodenchik, Eisenberg, Masterson & a whole buttload of others) had been added to the openin' credits...well, the credit sequence would be longer than the episode and it the payroll would have blown the budget.

 

[Kytee]

It's just all about contracts. Cirroc Lofton was signed to a six-year, regular cast contract when the show started, so he gets his name in the opening credits every week, regardless of how much screen time he gets. Aron and Max did not have that contract - they were only on recurring contracts, not regular. Simple as that.

Contracts like that are signed long before the show ever airs, and are based on what the show creators assume they're going to be able to do with the characters. They assumed - probably not unreasonably - that as the son of the lead character and station commander, Jake would be featured quite heavily, enough to justify the full-time contract. That it turned out not to be the case doesn't change the contract that was signed. The only way Cirroc would have left the main credits is if he officially resigned his full-time contract, which obviously he didn't do. Presumably he's not one of those actors who think they have to be the focus of attention at all times.

Conversely, being kept on a recurring contract - like the actors for Nog, Rom, Dukat, Weyoun, and endless others were - means that the actors are free to come and go as they please. They don't know when the writers are going to call on them for a script - because the writers themselves probably don't know - so they keep their options open by only signing on for one episode at a time, so that they can take other jobs if they feel the need. That means that sometimes the actor isn't available when the producers want him - Duncan Regehr's absence from "Rapture" for example - but on a quality show like DS9 I imagine most people, when they got the call, said "yes."

It's not just a matter of popping in and out of the credits based on the number of episodes you appear in - there's a whole big legal matter of contracts and agents and all sorts to take care of.

.

I wanted to chime in and say thank you for taking the time to write this up. This is one of the things I love about this forum, folks here seem to know everything about Trek, not just what happens on screen. I'll be honest, I probably have a better idea of how a transporter works then how a television show is run

I love DS9 and always wondered why Andrew Robinson was not in the opening credits; now I know,

Thank you,
Kytee

 

[GemHaters]

I love DS9 and always wondered why Andrew Robinson was not in the opening credits

Ah, Garak. My second favorite character.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

People tend to think these recurring characters appear in a lot of episodes. They really don't. A quick check of Memory Alpha tells us:

Garak? Just 33 episodes. Even in the final season, he only appeared 7 episodes-- almost entirely during the concluding arc.

Rom? Just 36 episodes. Only 6 episodes in each of the final two seasons.

Nog? The most prominent recurring character appears in just 46 episodes of 173.

Jake, by comparison, appears in 71 episodes. It's not much compared to the other regulars, but it's way more than any of those recurring characters.

(Morn, by the way, trumps them all. he appears in 92 episodes-- exactly double the number of appearances of Nog. Plus, Morn appeared in 1 episode each of TNG and Voyager.)

 

[Navaros]

People tend to think these recurring characters appear in a lot of episodes. They really don't.

That is because people remember characters and sub-consciously assign importance to them based on the degree that they offer entertainment, intrigue, & story value.

Most of the recurring characters on DS9 offer way more of all that than most of DS9's main characters.

In any case, the issue raised in the OP shows why the model for making a TV show based on the template of "main actors versus guest actors" should be annihilated. That model runs contrary to the interest of telling the best possible story each week.

I.e. They had to make "It's Only a Paper Moon" as a one-time controversial production because they barely used any "main" actors. That should not even be a controversy in the first place. No actor should ever appear in a story solely because he/she has been paid for, and/or because he/she is known as a "main" actor.

No writer should feel forced, because particular actors are being paid, not to write a story with characters that are best-suited for it, or to include in a story main characters that should have no business being in it. But that is what they must do with the art-killing "main actor versus guest actor" model.