Language frustraitions

[iguana_tonante]

Plus, there's the whole "speaking like a character from the Sopranos" thing that kind of undermines my professorial attitude...

I've always thought that there aren't enough blackmailing and protection money schemes going on in the physics community.

Oh, you'd be surprised. You'd be very surprised...

 

[C.E. Evans]

I've always admired people who could speak two or even more languages, regardless of how well. I studied French and Spanish for years in both grade school and high school and still can't speak either one of them worth a damn. I think it's because I didn't learn English correctly to begin with...

 

[Spot's Meow]

Your English is quite good. You are being too hard on yourself! There are many native English speakers who don't understand grammar at all and have terrible vocabulary, and you are already way ahead of them. Also, even those who have spent their whole lives reading, writing, and speaking English don't know everything there is to know about it. I like to think myself well read, but there are times when I come across a word I don't know and I have to look it up in a dictionary. And there are times when I have grammar questions. Do you always write and speak your native language perfectly, according to every precise rule, and always knowing just the right words to use? I seriously doubt it. So don't expect English to be any different.

 

[Gul Re'jal]

By the way accent...I guess I have lost most of mine. People not always guess correctly where I am from, like they did before. Though the stupid thing is, now many of them say, they have never heard an accent like that before, before they ask where I am from. Oh my, I hope I doesn´t sound to strange. Even other German don´t recognize me... one though I am from Spain. Oh well... whatever. *L*

So you lost your accent I worked hard to lose mine after hearing two Poles speaking behind me with some Irish fellow, when I was on vacations in Dublin. My ears hurt!

Now I am told I have a "European accent," which apparently is something that Continental Europeans use after losing their native accents. Not many can tell where we're from We don't sound the same, but we don't sound like any English native or foreign language heavily accented native.

We're accent ninja

 

[ares93]

I went from a British accent, to a strange Aussie/Canadian combination, then to Manc, and now to slavic/russian with a bit of Manc. I'm desperate to gen my Manc accent back...

 

[Gul Re'jal]

Easy. You need a new gf

 

[Danoz]

Hey buddy . Living in a foreign country, I can tell you that while I've seen friends improve in their Japanese consistently, it hasn't really been a strong suit for me. I've become better at guitar, photography, painting, Judo... but my skills in Japanese are still a slow process when it comes to speaking. Now, I can sit down and write a pretty decent email, letter or post in Japanese-- but, as you've said, that's quite different!! I completely sympathize.

Best thing I've done is to make Japanese friend and meet with them regularly. We only speak in Japanese! Keep up the hard work!

 

[Alidar Jarok]

While I think some people learn languages more naturally, hard work can improve your skills. It takes time and practice. The more the better. The reason people like immersion is because it forces you to use the language constantly. But this process doesn't work through osmosis, you still have to go out and use it.

I think one key is confidence. When I'm drunk, I find that I speak the language often more naturally. The reason is I stop overthinking things, which makes me realize I know more than I do. At the same time, I do think formal classes help. It's possible to keep making the same grammar mistakes over and over again and people won't correct you because they understood what you meant. However, generally, I don't want to just be understood, I want to say things correctly.

 

[Alienesse]

Your English sounds fine, TerokNor. We can all understand you very well. I think the best thing you can do at this point is to relax, think less about what's missing and more about what you have achieved so far. May I ask how long you've been studying English? It does take time and sometimes progress comes when you least expect it. At least that has been my experience.

Thanks for the advice. Will try (or better not try ) it, but just talk and practice. The spoken language diary sounds good too.What kind of questions do you ask yourself Gov Kodos? Things like: Are there more universes besides ours? Where do I want to be in 5 years?
I sometimes try to answer questions like that just thinking in English, but never recorded the answers so far.

I think you can begin with simpler questions, or just casual, everyday stuff. Whatever you're thinking about, try putting it into words. It helps a lot if you do that aloud because it allows to hear yourself and adjust as you go. I actually used to have entire conversations with myself in English when I started learning it. I was careful not to let other people see me talking to myself , but it helped a great deal.

 

[IndyJones]

I think one key is confidence. When I'm drunk, I find that I speak the language often more naturally. The reason is I stop overthinking things, which makes me realize I know more than I do.

Yeah, I think that's really important.

About half of the people I see at work speak Spanish as their first, or only, language. When I started I would get nervous about every word I didn't know and then just shut down.

Over time, I've learned to say what I know and if I have to throw in an English word into the mix that's ok. Then the person I'm speaking to only has to guess what that one word was, and not the whole sentence.

Maybe not as relevant to the OP's situation, but I think it's worthwhile nonetheless.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

It's true that language improves continuously and you may not notice all of the improvements you're making. I think there are some.

There's one thing I'm curious about, and it's your learning style. You say that meaningful experiences help you. I thought maybe learning a bit more about your learning style would help you figure out what helps you remember best...

http://www.vark-learn.com/German/page.asp?p=questionnaire

 

[Gul Re'jal]

It's possible to keep making the same grammar mistakes over and over again and people won't correct you because they understood what you meant. However, generally, I don't want to just be understood, I want to say things correctly.

So true. My English stopped developing, because I gained some degree of fluency and am able to communicate without problems, so no one corrects my wrong tenses or lack of/incorrect use of the articles. So I don't improve.

And sometimes listening to something is not enough, at least for me. Some problems have to be pointed out to draw my attention to them and consciously correct them.

 

[TerokNor]

Well I had English in school for 7 years (but always was very bad in that subject). I have been in England for 8 months in 2000/2001. I have been in England 4 weeks in 2010. I am in NZ now nearly 5 months and staying another 2 months.
That should be plenty of excersize, but still it seems not enough.

Learning Style... hmm... language I learn best in practical situations, that involve emotions. I do not remember words... I remember pictures and these pictures shining in a certain emotion light...and then I place the words with it... I think.
Though sometimes emotions and making up the picture in my mind (like when reading a story) is enough as well to remember the words. But only when I can identify with the character I am reading about or find the character very interessting.

How I learn grammer...no idea. I never keep rules in my mind, well at least not many. It either feels correct or it does not feel correct.

What learning strategies do you use to learn a second language?

In the link it comes out like this:

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Visual: 5[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Aural: 4[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Read/Write: 6[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kinesthetic: 12[/FONT]

Though I know that visual should be a bit higher, as I do learn often using visual thing, like when I have to learn something complex I try to develop some sort of picture with it...and when I have to repeat it I follow some basic words and arrows and lines in my head to get it all.



TerokNor

 

[Gov Kodos]

Dating, it's an endless source of inspiration.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Gul Re'jal, your English is continuing to improve. The changes are more subtle now because you've gotten through the most difficult stage, but I can still see it.

TerokNor: For me, I do a lot of reading and writing, and charts. I know a lot of people hate that kind of stuff, but language books that lack in-depth grammar explanations and organized charts are hard for me. I need to see everything laid out in a manner where I can really analyze and pick it apart.

To me it sounds like you could benefit from...well...playing. Games and activities where you have to physically do something, and talk while you're doing it, could help. Rather than simply filling out worksheets or reciting phrases to remember spelling or grammar, what about playing with something like fridge magnets (I've seen them as letters or words) that you have to pick up and put into place? Don't be afraid to play with kids' toys...one of the great thing is that once you're out of your teenage years and no longer concerned with your "image" in front of others, you suddenly remember how fun that stuff was.

 

[Gul Re'jal]

Gul Re'jal, your English is continuing to improve. The changes are more subtle now because you've gotten through the most difficult stage, but I can still see it.

But I needed a merciful and patient angel to point out to me that I comment on something and smile at someone

And today, reading my own story, I found such a terrible mistake that my eyes hurt. I immediately went and edited it in every place I had posted it and still could edit the text

TerokNor: For me, I do a lot of reading and writing, and charts. I know a lot of people hate that kind of stuff, but language books that lack in-depth grammar explanations and organized charts are hard for me. I need to see everything laid out in a manner where I can really analyze and pick it apart.

The problems start when you know the structure and rules, but live situations escape those clear examples from books.

To me it sounds like you could benefit from...well...playing. Games and activities where you have to physically do something, and talk while you're doing it, could help. Rather than simply filling out worksheets or reciting phrases to remember spelling or grammar, what about playing with something like fridge magnets (I've seen them as letters or words) that you have to pick up and put into place? Don't be afraid to play with kids' toys...one of the great thing is that once you're out of your teenage years and no longer concerned with your "image" in front of others, you suddenly remember how fun that stuff was.

That sounds like a good idea. But to really work, it would be the best to have someone who'd correct mistakes, because there's nothing worse than to learn something wrong--it's very difficult to get rid of that later.