"Nope."

[Tiberius Jim]

I'd like to preface this post with the fact that this isn't a "Here's a problem, what should I do?" topic. I have a pretty good idea as to how best to proceed, I just felt the need to vent about it.

I'm a design school graduate with a BS in Graphic Design and since I graduated in '09 I have been seeking a job in my field. Sadly, I have yet to find a full time gig and have been working as a business printing sales adviser to pay the bills and do freelance design work on the side when I can. As you can imagine, that's not really satisfying for me right now.

The other day, I found a posting on Craigslist for a design job that seemed great. It was for a hot rod and custom car club that is pretty well known in Northern California, and they publish a lot of materials, namely a monthly gazette. I've loved cars all my life and the chance to work in that sort of environment as a designer would be a dream come true.

So naturally, I applied. I followed the listing's instructions to email a .doc of my resume, a .PDF of work samples and a cover letter in the email body. I wrote out a well worded cover letter explaining my affinity for cars and design and the usual self-selling cover letter items. I even customized my resume to focus on the aspects they were looking for and highlight the skills I have that they wanted. I then put together a portfolio of my work that I felt was my best examples of the type of work I would be doing. I usually put a lot of effort into my job apps but this one got an extra bit of attention.

I sent the email in to the editor@ address as instructed...and waited.

After a week had passed and I heard nothing back, I decided to follow up. I sent a polite message asking if my materials had been received, and restated my desire to be considered. I reattached my samples and resume as well. I then took a look at the company website and found contact info for their Art Director. There were other names and titles that seemed related to media or their gazette, but to me the title Art Director was the one that stood out as being the guy in charge of hiring a graphic designer. His name was Kevin, so I sent the email to the editor@ as well as to Kevin's email with the email addressed to him.

Very shortly after, I received a reply. As you can imagine, I got rather excited, especially to have heard back so soon. I noticed that the reply was from a guy named Kirk. Looking back to the contact list, Kirk's title read as "Gazette Publisher." That was one name I was on the fence about emailing, but felt that Kevin was the more logical choice.

I quickly opened the email and skimmed past my original email that had been included inline. As I skimmed down I first saw Kirk's signature line. It turns out his title is "Creative Director." Had I known this, I would have emailed him instead of Kevin, or at least included him. It took me a few seconds to find the actual body of the email, though. And that is because the body of the email consisted of one word.

"Nope."

I was pretty confused at first...hell, I'ms till confused. At first, I couldn't believe that someone would reply to a prospective employee like that. Very unprofessional and downright rude. After thinking about it some more, I started to wonder if I had received the email in error. Maybe Kevin had asked him if he'd received my materials, and this was Kirk's reply meant to go back to him and not me. So I replied, with a short question of whether I had received it in error and a request for clarification. Something I feel I would be due either way, error or not.

Anyway, it's now a week later with no reply whatsoever and I'm pretty disappointed. I know for a fact that my qualifications are more than enough for the job and I'd be a perfect fit, and I have no idea why my application would receive such a callous response. Was Kirk offended that I sent the email to Kevin instead of him? If so, that too is very unprofessional especially considering that his job title is misrepresented on the company website. It seems completely logical to have sent it to Kevin.

Any insight or opinions on this? I'm pretty sure it's a dead end and won't be pursuing it any further...but it's just disappointing as all hell.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Is it possible that even a region of the job market this specific is falling prey to overcrowding and competition? That they're receiving too many applications from people suited to the position that they have to bluntly reject people? And if you were indeed perfectly suited to the position, is it possible that they simply couldn't offer a reason other than "we can't take you"? What would they do if they got applications from multiple people, all of which would have been great in the position?

I probably have no clue what I'm on about, since my own skills are far less targeted and specific, and my own search for a job doesn't mirror yours, but I've still seen how having qualifications and talent doesn't necessarily mean you'll be snapped up anymore.

Again, my experience in these matters isn't great, so I may be talking nonsense, but can you guarantee that you aren't one of many applicants and they just don't have the means to give everyone a hearing?

Either way, I sympathise; it's frustrating to put such genuine effort and commitment into an application only to be dismissed so quickly and casually.

 

[Roger Wilco]

It sounds to me like Kirk and Kevin seem to think it's beneath themn to deal with job applicants and were pissed that you even contacted them in the first place. Which is strange for several reasons - if their e-mail addresses are publicly listed, they can't really be surprised about receiving mail, and also, you can't really blame someone looking for a job to be anxious about getting an answer.

If I'm right, it seems to be an assholish company anyway though, maybe you're better off without this experience.

 

[Timby]

Is it possible that even a region of the job market this specific is falling prey to overcrowding and competition?

This is exactly how it is in Madison, Wisconsin, which is a pretty tech-savvy town. Basically, if you don't receive any sort of follow-up, you were rejected.

For example: In mid-April 2011, my company posted an opening for a part-time graphic designer (as we're a non-profit, we don't have the money for an FT designer). We received 231 applications. Out of those, I think something like 25 made it to the phone screen process, and nine made it to interviews. The people who went through phone screens but didn't make it to interviews received ding letters, while the interviewees who didn't get the job received personalized ding letters. And that's in Madison.

This is a different era of job searching. It's not like six or seven years ago, when the customary closure to a cover letter was to say something like, "Thank you for your consideration, and I will follow up with you sometime within the next week." Essentially every job sector is completely saturated right now.

The way you followed up, Flux, probably torpedoed whatever chance you had at consideration. Not only did you re-send your application materials again with a "just making sure you got this" (polite or not, hiring people generally see that as rude), but you then started sending them to other people, beyond the scope of the application instructions that were given to you. There's being hungry for a position, and then there's going too far.

In this market, with the flood of applications coming in for nearly every position under the sun, the best practice is to submit your materials, then shut up and wait. If you don't hear anything, then let it go. One of the absolute worst things you can imply to a hiring manager is, "Hurry up and tell me."

I sympathize, because this market sucks out loud right now. Good luck to you -- but learn from your experience in this case.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

See, I've always heard that following up on a job application is key. I've applied for jobs and done the "wait and see" approach and never hear back, so with this one I didn't want to take any chances. It seems like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't in most cases. I just can't see how following up is rude...I feel like a job applicant deserves an answer one way or another, especially when so much information is requested. I'm not really sure what to learn from this because I've had the same if not less luck when I don't follow up.

Whether my follow up was seen as rude or not, Kirk's reply was simply out of line, assuming it was indeed sent on purpose. I've got half a mind to forward it all to the company president so he can see how his employees are treating potential hires. Since my chances are "torpedoed" anyway, I don't really have anything to lose.

 

[Sky]

Basically, if you don't receive any sort of follow-up, you were rejected.

I don't understand why even a form email is too much to ask nowadays.

 

[Amaris]

Because they either:

A) Don't give a damn.
B) Are very busy and understaffed.
C) Don't give a damn.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Basically, if you don't receive any sort of follow-up, you were rejected.

I don't understand why even a form email is too much to ask nowadays.

I've applied for almost a hundred jobs over the last few months. I got two replies - one an invitation to interview (which went okay but I didn't get the job, obviously) and one a "sorry, you were not selected" notice. Two out of almost 100. Again, I assume there's just so much competition that expecting any feedback (or two-way communication of any sort) is pointless.

 

[FPAlpha]

I agree to a part with Timby as you sort of "broke the chain of command" by applying to people directly instead of advertised channels.

I don't know how stressed they are or how tight their workload is but many companies have specialists in HR who weed out those who won't have a chance to make the cut in the 2nd or final round even before they send the applications to your future boss for evaluation.

Now a week is usually way enough to send a polite "No but thank you for your interest" but a nice follow up after a week never hurt anyone.

You jumped the chain a bit which can be bad but also good.. many bosses like initiative and look for that in applicants, however some are assholes who get annoyed when someone pushes them a bit. Seems you ran into the latter but the extent of the rudeness surprises me and is highly unprofessional.

I think your chances are dead with this company but do you really want to work for someone who brushes off people with "Nope"?

I've applied for almost a hundred jobs over the last few months. I got two replies - one an invitation to interview (which went okay but I didn't get the job, obviously) and one a "sorry, you were not selected" notice. Two out of almost 100. Again, I assume there's just so much competition that expecting any feedback (or two-way communication of any sort) is pointless.

Any professional company has people whose sole job is to handle and evaluate new staff and don't find it too much of a hassle to set up an automated, copy&paste message (many modern email programs could be modified to send an automated message to a sender via the click of a single button) to let them know you're not interested and prevent them from sending even more mails.

That professionalism however lessens the smaller the company is up to where the HR rep is someone who is good with the "kompjuter" and has maybe a college degree in a totally unrelated field.

 

[mimic]

It is extremely frustrating when you don't hear back, because quite often it's like you're sending your resume into the void. When I was applying for teaching positions I was frequently directed to use the website REAP.net, and you'd click "I'm interested" for a job posting and presumably that meant it sent. I never heard from a single one of those schools.

Then I was interviewed by West Chester, twice, and they never got back to tell me that I didn't get the job. After a month my parents made me call, which I didn't want to do because I'd figured out that the answer was no, but Dad insisted that "maybe they had the wrong phone number or address," so I got to listen to a lovely lady in HR tell me that the position had indeed been filled and tell my parents "I told you so."

I did ultimately find a job, though. They called with the good news the day after the interview.

 

[Roger Wilco]

You jumped the chain a bit which can be bad but also good.. many bosses like initiative and look for that in applicants, however some are assholes who get annoyed when someone pushes them a bit. Seems you ran into the latter but the extent of the rudeness surprises me and is highly unprofessional.

Yeah. How much more time would it have taken Kirk to say "Sorry, Mr. Flux Capacitor, job applications aren't my resort, please contact XY if you have any questions."?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I think your chances are dead with this company but do you really want to work for someone who brushes off people with "Nope"?

That's my thought. Whatever else happened, the response from the company was completely inappropriate and suggests they'd be absolute hell to work for. So I'd say no loss there.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

You jumped the chain a bit which can be bad but also good.. many bosses like initiative and look for that in applicants, however some are assholes who get annoyed when someone pushes them a bit. Seems you ran into the latter but the extent of the rudeness surprises me and is highly unprofessional.

Yeah. How much more time would it have taken Kirk to say "Sorry, Mr. Flux Capacitor, job applications aren't my resort, please contact XY if you have any questions."?

Perhaps it's simply because he "broke the rules"? A lot of people get strangely hostile with you if you fail to follow each step as laid out, or fail to tick inside the box, so to speak. There are procedures and checklists that define many people's jobs, and failing to repect the rules is seen, I think, as failing to respect their position. At my local job centre, I once saw one of the advisors have a long lecture-rant at some poor person for, of all things, arriving 15 minutes early. Not expecting to be served, mind you, but quietly sitting in the waiting area until she was called. It caused no hassle or inconvenience to anyone, didn't disrupt a thing, but you see it didn't conform to her instructions precisely, and thus was unacceptable.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

To clarify my reasoning for going outside the predetermined contact address for the follow up, I had heard from many sources that if you have access to an actual person's info (which I did since it was all right there on their Contact Us page) to send a follow up to those people.

But you guys are right; after the email I immediately thought to myself, "Well, I wouldn't want to work for that asshole anyway. Bullet = dodged."

 

[Owain Taggart]

I think it's only fair to get a reply back when having sent an application, even if you haven't gotten the job. It creates goodwill. Several times I've sent applications in, only to wait and never hear back, which I think is unfair to the person who's put the effort and shown interest. At the very least, they could have sent a "We're very sorry, but your application has not been accepted." Communication is a two-way street, and I feel it's rude to leave someone hanging. Letting a person know should be common courtesy.

 

[Balrog]

Yeah, like others said here, you have to follow the chain of command in these situations. Mailing your portfolio and resume unsolicited wouldn't earn you many brownie points in my book. My thought as the recipient would be, "Don't we have people who screen this kind of stuff?". Obviously, this company did.

That being said, the response you got sucked. It wouldn't have taken long to send a polite note, as opposed to the quick "Nope" that made this boss look like a complete tool and the company seem very unprofessional. I don't care if it's a quick note like the one you got, or a much longer letter, never write something with your signature on it that puts you and/or your company in a bad light. It'll ALWAYS come back to haunt you.

Rules to live by:
Never write what you can say.
Never say what you can nod.
Never nod what you can wink.
Never wink what you can smile.

 

[Spot's Meow]

Is it possible that even a region of the job market this specific is falling prey to overcrowding and competition?

This is exactly how it is in Madison, Wisconsin, which is a pretty tech-savvy town. Basically, if you don't receive any sort of follow-up, you were rejected.

For example: In mid-April 2011, my company posted an opening for a part-time graphic designer (as we're a non-profit, we don't have the money for an FT designer). We received 231 applications. Out of those, I think something like 25 made it to the phone screen process, and nine made it to interviews. The people who went through phone screens but didn't make it to interviews received ding letters, while the interviewees who didn't get the job received personalized ding letters. And that's in Madison.

This is a different era of job searching. It's not like six or seven years ago, when the customary closure to a cover letter was to say something like, "Thank you for your consideration, and I will follow up with you sometime within the next week." Essentially every job sector is completely saturated right now.

The way you followed up, Flux, probably torpedoed whatever chance you had at consideration. Not only did you re-send your application materials again with a "just making sure you got this" (polite or not, hiring people generally see that as rude), but you then started sending them to other people, beyond the scope of the application instructions that were given to you. There's being hungry for a position, and then there's going too far.

In this market, with the flood of applications coming in for nearly every position under the sun, the best practice is to submit your materials, then shut up and wait. If you don't hear anything, then let it go. One of the absolute worst things you can imply to a hiring manager is, "Hurry up and tell me."

I sympathize, because this market sucks out loud right now. Good luck to you -- but learn from your experience in this case.

This has been pretty much my experience as well. I applied for what seemed like hundreds of jobs last year when I was looking for work, and I only got two interviews, one rejection letter in the mail, and one rejection letter by email. The vast majority of the time, I sent my resume out into the dark mass of internets never to be heard from again. My elders would often give me advice on how I should be following up in all these different ways, and handwriting thank you notes for every time I sent in a resume, and going there in person to formally introduce myself, etc. Most of the advice I did not find relevant to my job search at all. It is how I did my job searches several years ago, but now everything is done online and nobody wants to be bothered with your thank yous or check ins, and in fact it makes you look too desperate and irritating in their eyes. Some fields may differ of course, but that was my experience.

When something is meant to be, it will happen quickly and will feel more effortless. I went months without hearing a word from any place I applied (made me wonder if the internet I was using was the same as everyone else's), but then I got three interviews within one week; with one of them they called the night before and scheduled it for the next morning, then hired me on the spot and I started my paperwork and the actual position the next day. It's funny how that works, everything (good or bad) seems to happen all at once. It's the waiting part that is difficult.

 

[Goji]

Maybe it's just where I live, and thus where I have experience applying to jobs, but I have never been outright told that I was not chosen/rejected for a position. I've always found out simply by not hearing anything further. There were even a couple where I was called in for an interview and later heard absolutely nothing. Getting even a one word response is more than I would expect.

 

[sojourner]

Just send a reply back saying, "Yep!".

 

[FPAlpha]

Just send a reply back saying, "Yep!".

Actually not a bad idea