In preparation for eventual listening to the new Big Finish aduio adventures starring Tom Baker, I went out and bought The Sunmakers on dvd tonight. Anyone else do something similiar and what if anything do you make of The Sunmakers as a story? 
The Sunmakers
- Thread starter CaptainMatt
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I have a bit of a bias in favor of The Sunmakers because Henry Woolf used to teach at the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon when I took some 2nd year university drama courses there. I never had him as a teacher directly but I did get him to autograph a book of Harold Pinter plays (google Woolf for the connection) and had some fun when I showed an episode of Sunmakers to my class.
I was greatly impressed when I watched the making-of documentary on the DVD and found out how much of a biting political satire this was, and that it was apparently written as a big f-you to the tax collectors by Robert Holmes! I used to think it was one of the lesser stories, but when I found out about the background, it raised it quite a bit (and proved that Doctor Who-as-political-statement didn't begin with Paradise Towers).
Apparently at one point Leela was actually going to be offed during this story, but then they changed their minds. That would have made this story VERY different, indeed! (And it could be argued it might have been a better exit than the one she did get, though we wouldn't have had Louise Jameson and Lalla Ward teaming up for the Gallifrey audio dramas.
Alex
I was greatly impressed when I watched the making-of documentary on the DVD and found out how much of a biting political satire this was, and that it was apparently written as a big f-you to the tax collectors by Robert Holmes! I used to think it was one of the lesser stories, but when I found out about the background, it raised it quite a bit (and proved that Doctor Who-as-political-statement didn't begin with Paradise Towers).
Apparently at one point Leela was actually going to be offed during this story, but then they changed their minds. That would have made this story VERY different, indeed! (And it could be argued it might have been a better exit than the one she did get, though we wouldn't have had Louise Jameson and Lalla Ward teaming up for the Gallifrey audio dramas.
Alex
Been years since I've seen it but I remember it has Michael "Vila" Keating in it.
I first saw the Sunmakers years ago when UK Gold were repeating the old series and absolutely loved it. Holmes's is clearly having a great time and the humour is very dark at times.
Definitely in my top 10 Who stories of all time, it's Louise Jameson's favourite story as well.
Definitely in my top 10 Who stories of all time, it's Louise Jameson's favourite story as well.
I also recently bought The Sunmakers, but mostly because I wanted to buy a Doctor Who DVD. This serial won out because of Michael Keating, who I looked forward to watching because I recently finished watched Blake's 7 for the first time.
I love this story just as much as I did the first time I watched it years ago, but like 23skidoo, I had no idea of the backstory behind it until I watched the behind-the-scenes documentary. It's times like these I wish I was more familiar with British history to pick up on such things.
I love this story just as much as I did the first time I watched it years ago, but like 23skidoo, I had no idea of the backstory behind it until I watched the behind-the-scenes documentary. It's times like these I wish I was more familiar with British history to pick up on such things.
I have to correct an error in my post. Because I always get them mixed up in my head, I meant to cite The Happiness Patrol (the infamous Thatcher parody) as the political satire, not Paradise Towers, though I'd imagine there's some in there too.
Something I've started to do is watch the documentary first - at least the first few minutes that discuss the origins of the story at hand; watching the whole thing of course risks spoilers if you're not familiar with the story. I also often leave the production notes subtitles running as there's some fascinating (and often very funny) commentary in there as well. In the case of The Sunmakers, the notes will identify the moment in the story where Leela was originally going to be killed off. You also learn that the single funniest scene in the story (I won't spoil but it involves the Doctor, Leela, a guard, and an old trick) was improvised by the actors.
Alex
Something I've started to do is watch the documentary first - at least the first few minutes that discuss the origins of the story at hand; watching the whole thing of course risks spoilers if you're not familiar with the story. I also often leave the production notes subtitles running as there's some fascinating (and often very funny) commentary in there as well. In the case of The Sunmakers, the notes will identify the moment in the story where Leela was originally going to be killed off. You also learn that the single funniest scene in the story (I won't spoil but it involves the Doctor, Leela, a guard, and an old trick) was improvised by the actors.
Alex
I can't remember if I knew about Holmes' "dig" at the tax system when I first saw this serial in the mid 80s on PBS, but if it wasn't then, then it was at most only a couple of years later when various retrospective coffee table books were published.
But I am surprised to read Leela was to be killed in this story! That's news to me. The only considered death about which I've read is the oft' discussed demise planned in "The Invasion of Time".
Sincerely,
Bill
But I am surprised to read Leela was to be killed in this story! That's news to me. The only considered death about which I've read is the oft' discussed demise planned in "The Invasion of Time".
Sincerely,
Bill
Believe it was his perfomance in The Sunmakers that helped Keating get the role in B7. There's another B7 link to the episode but can't remember what it is.
Yes, it was which Keating talks about in the behind the scenes documentary. I believe he said the director recommended him for the role.
Isn't it weird how no one can write the name of this serial correctly? I think it's one of fandom's blind spots.
Apparently it was vetoed because it was felt inappropriate to have the Doctor grieving during the middle of a story - or grieving period which is probably why all the companions survived. If Baker had stayed on another season Adric probably wouldn't have been killed off either.
Blame Target Books which published Doctor Who and the Sunmakers!
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor_Who_and_the_Sunmakers
(If I'd had a copy of this book back in university I would have had Henry Woolf autograph it rather than the Pinter plays book - look at the cover to see why!)
Alex
I got a kick out of the following exchange:
MARN
Would you care for a leaf?
DOCTOR
Thank you. (to Hade) Thank you. Mmmm! Rubus idaeus?
HADE (self-importantly)
No no! Raspberry leaves. I have them specially imported.
Would you care for a leaf?
DOCTOR
Thank you. (to Hade) Thank you. Mmmm! Rubus idaeus?
HADE (self-importantly)
No no! Raspberry leaves. I have them specially imported.
Which would've been just fine imo. I thought Adric and Four worked quite well together.
Just like Planet of the Giants.
Sunmakers was also the first story to fully include K9 after "The Invisible Enemy". The intervening story "Image of the Fendahl" did not really include him because at that point they weren't sure the character was staying on after his first story. So in Image of the Fendahl they wrote some short scenes showing the Doctor repairing him, and he sat out the rest of the action.
Thanks for the laugh! I enjoyed Hade in my initial viewing in 1990 and think he was written and acted hilariously. The Doctor played him like a chump. 
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