Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

[Killandra]

^^ Okay... you don't get it. So?

Indeed. Some get it, some don't. I am a Janeway fan and yes, she was a role model for me as I was growing up. Many have had a fictional hero or two as they grew up: Batman, Robin Hood, etc. Some women in my age group took Xena as their fictional hero- mine just happened to be Janeway.

Perhaps some Janeway fans do go overboard, but I see that in fans of everyone and everything. I can't explain everyone else's actions, etc., but I can say/ask who doesn't have a sense of loyalty to their heroes, real or imagined? I don't think I'm rabid, delusional, or any other choice words or assumptions Janeway fans have been labeled in this thread.

I just simply love Janeway, she was a childhood hero, and thought her death was unnecessary and would like to have her back in the books. Simply put, Voyager without Janeway makes as much since as Next Gen without Picard. Nothing more or less.

 

[Killandra]

They should have let TNG go and let DS9 or Voyager take over the movie reigns or just not made a movie at all. I know that's a hard pill to swallow for TNG fans, but TNG had it's time in the sun and it was well past the time to pass the movie torch as well...

Ummm, the TV ratings for TNG in first-run syndication were stupendous (as were TOS in prime time syndicated repeat), and that in-built audience, plus the general public, was attracted to see TOS and TNG movies on the big screen.

Audiences for DS9 and VOY and ENT (the last two on a fledgling TV network that wasn't even broadcasting to some parts of the USA) got smaller and smaller and smaller. None of those series were viable properties for the big screen.

DS9 and Voyager didn't carry like TNG, agreed, but that aside, the TNG movies kept selling worse and worse with the exception of First Contact. I stand by the statement, Nemesis should have not been made. Either no movie at all (perhaps the preferable alternative) or moved on with another Trek to cover in the box office. Nemesis hurt more than helped TNG in my mind.

Link to box office sales data: http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/series/StarTrek.php

 

[Therin of Andor]

moved on with another Trek to cover in the box office.

As I said, none of the latter three series were viable properties for the big screen. Paramount had hopes that ENT would be the next movie franchise, and Scott Bakula's five-year contract guaranteed him an option of two movies made by Paramount.

But DS9, VOY and ENT's audiences were miniscule - and falling - compared to their TV predecessors. Yes, INS and NEM failed to provide the numbers needed by Paramount. The law of diminishing returns, which happens to most film sequels in a franchise at some point. But, as fans said at the time of NEM flopping, they'd had 18 years straight of new ST on TV, which they could watch for free. Movie studios were spending huge amounts on blockbusters, and ST hadn't been receiving blockbuster funding since TMP in 1979. The cheaper films were also more profitable and less risky.

Star Trek had to get pretty special again, all of a sudden, to make audiences want to start paying for it again. A post-Sisko DS9 movie, or a Voyager in the Alpha Quadrant movie, was never gonna cut it. Too few people know those shows. Even today.

And thus... JJ Abrams remade TOS for new generations.

 

[Capt.Jaysee]

Interesting that many people are ready to send Janeway fans off to the asylum.

Do you think JFK is real? NO!. His policies were created by many minds and his speeches were written by another mans inflictions. REAL???

What about Elvis??? He suppose to be real, but wait; he sung songs from other people's hearts, the songwriter's thoughts.

You're not making a very good case for yourself.

I don't need to make a case for myself, I'm simply expressing what I feel.
.......................
A lot of judging in this thread, accusations, insults all for what?

Is there anything to gain from it, other than a brief respite from boredom?

Leave you guys to it...Off to watch VOYAGER...

 

[Therin of Andor]

What about Elvis??? He suppose to be real, but wait; he sung songs from other people's hearts, the songwriter's thoughts.

Eight songs written by Elvis Presley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Elvis_Presley

 

[Killandra]

What about Elvis??? He suppose to be real, but wait; he sung songs from other people's hearts, the songwriter's thoughts.

Eight songs written by Elvis Presley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Elvis_Presley

Yeah, I have to say I wasn't getting the whole Elvis not being real reference. True, he didn't write all his own songs- few musicians do, but I don't see where he has any relevance to the Janeway argument.

 

[Capt.Jaysee]

What about Elvis??? He suppose to be real, but wait; he sung songs from other people's hearts, the songwriter's thoughts.

Eight songs written by Elvis Presley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Elvis_Presley

Yeah, I have to say I wasn't getting the whole Elvis not being real reference. True, he didn't write all his own songs- few musicians do, but I don't see where he has any relevance to the Janeway argument.

Niether does flaming people for wanting Janeway back! Share your opinion, but don't go on and on about it. You know this thread was created for Janeway fans, you knew that commenting against it, would cause arguments. That was the intent.

Grow up!

 

[Chuckling]

Eight songs written by Elvis Presley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Elvis_Presley

Yeah, I have to say I wasn't getting the whole Elvis not being real reference. True, he didn't write all his own songs- few musicians do, but I don't see where he has any relevance to the Janeway argument.

Niether does flaming people for wanting Janeway back! Share your opinion, but don't go on and on about it. You know this thread was created for Janeway fans, you knew that commenting against it, would cause arguments. That was the intent.

Grow up!

Can't see where people are being flamed here and the thread is open to the public for everybody to comment (as far as I can see but the Mods. can decide that).

I've looked at the petition.

http://www.change.org/petitions/pocket-books-bring-back-admiral-kathryn-janeway-to-star-trek-voyager

May I make a suggestion? How about checking the language in it so it isn't quite so emotive and defensive?

Check out other petitions at this website and see how the language being used compares to yours.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/

Best to stay objective and present your arguments clearly and concisely.

Hope that helps!

Chuckling

 

[Therin of Andor]

Niether does flaming people for wanting Janeway back!

Who is flaming? Killandra is a Janeway fan, but then so am I, so who are you talking to here?

Share your opinion, but don't go on and on about it.

So report the offending posts to the mods.

You know this thread was created for Janeway fans, you knew that commenting against it, would cause arguments. That was the intent.

Grow up!

I thought it was a discussion?

 

[Killandra]

Eight songs written by Elvis Presley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Elvis_Presley

Yeah, I have to say I wasn't getting the whole Elvis not being real reference. True, he didn't write all his own songs- few musicians do, but I don't see where he has any relevance to the Janeway argument.

Niether does flaming people for wanting Janeway back! Share your opinion, but don't go on and on about it. You know this thread was created for Janeway fans, you knew that commenting against it, would cause arguments. That was the intent.

Grow up!

Capt. Jaysee,

Perhaps before telling me to "grow up", you should go back and actually read my posts, you will see that I am in fact a Janeway fan. I have said repetitively actually how she is a childhood hero of mine.

I have not flamed anyone. Nor do I see how the above quote of mine that you commented on was a flame. Never once did I comment against Janeway or spit venom to anyone on this thread. I have, however tried to find common ground for everyone involved. Truth be told, I actually suggested to someone posting about the petition on the "other trek board" that they perhaps post it here as well. Your attack against me was completely unfounded and unnecessary.

 

[Killandra]

Niether does flaming people for wanting Janeway back!

Who is flaming? Killandra is a Janeway fan, but then so am I, so who are you talking to here?

Thanks, Therin of Andor. Yes, I am a Janeway fan (I think I've perhaps said it enough to bore everyone here to tears), and I will defend Janeway, but I also admit her faults. All characters and each Trek series has them, some more than others.

 

[Capt.Jaysee]

Yeah, I have to say I wasn't getting the whole Elvis not being real reference. True, he didn't write all his own songs- few musicians do, but I don't see where he has any relevance to the Janeway argument.

Niether does flaming people for wanting Janeway back! Share your opinion, but don't go on and on about it. You know this thread was created for Janeway fans, you knew that commenting against it, would cause arguments. That was the intent.


Grow up!

Capt. Jaysee,

Perhaps before telling me to "grow up", you should go back and actually read my posts, you will see that I am in fact a Janeway fan. I have said repetitively actually how she is a childhood hero of mine.

I have not flamed anyone. Nor do I see how the above quote of mine that you commented on was a flame. Never once did I comment against Janeway or spit venom to anyone on this thread. I have, however tried to find common ground for everyone involved. Truth be told, I actually suggested to someone posting about the petition on the "other trek board" that they perhaps post it here as well. Your attack against me was completely unfounded and unnecessary.

I haven't ATTACKED anyone. I didn't aim it at you personally. I was speaking in general about people's posts on this thread and threads to do with bringing KJ back.

I have difficulty wording things, I'm sick of people making a mockery of my opinion, cause they like to take things i say out of context.

What about the post "not again, don't YOU people give up" and things like that. Why comment on it, that type of things aren't discussion. what about "Your not making a good case for yourself"...Well if I had better language skills maybe I could word it so people understand, but I don't.

When did I say you weren't a Janeway fan? I don't remember telling anyone they were or weren't one.

 

[Akiraprise]

This is a discussion board. People have opposing viewpoints. They're entitled to express them. It's the nature of the beast. This is one of the most volatile topics in this forum when it pops up from time to time. The fact that we can still have volatile topics in a forum about a show that's been off the air for 12 years says something. I'm not quite sure what, but it says something.

Truth be told I think all online petitions are a waste of time. It's too easy to just point, click, and send an e-mail to some corporate lackey who makes virtually no money and could give two shits less about whatever the topic is. But people are free to do what they want with their time and if they want to fill out petitions online more power to them.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I haven't ATTACKED anyone. I didn't aim it at you personally. I was speaking in general about people's posts on this thread and threads to do with bringing KJ back.

But you addressed the issue of flaming in a reply to a post involving a quoted discussion between Killandra and Therin of Andor, neither of whom had flamed you. We did question the validity of your previous statement that Elvis didn't write his own songs, and we were curious as to just who you were accusing of flaming.

I have difficulty wording things, I'm sick of people making a mockery of my opinion, cause they like to take things i say out of context.

No one makes a mockery of opinions that are backed up by facts. I would say that we all have "difficulty wording things" when it comes to controversial topics about which we are passionate. Debating contentious topics is hard work.

Well if I had better language skills maybe I could word it so people understand, but I don't.

The general rule of thumb would be that if you make a sweeping statement, have some solid facts to back it up. We can all have opinions, and are entitled/encouraged to share them - but if we are using our personal opinions in a debate, they need to be informed opinions. This is where a few Janeway supporters (and even myself) have come unraveled when discussing the post-Janeway VOY novels in this thread, because if you haven't read them all, you don't have an informed opinion on their content or style.

 

[Capt.Jaysee]

I haven't ATTACKED anyone. I didn't aim it at you personally. I was speaking in general about people's posts on this thread and threads to do with bringing KJ back.

But you addressed the issue of flaming in a reply to a post involving a quoted discussion between Killandra and Therin of Andor, neither of whom had flamed you. We did question the validity of your previous statement that Elvis didn't write his own songs, and we were curious as to just who you were accusing of flaming.

I have difficulty wording things, I'm sick of people making a mockery of my opinion, cause they like to take things i say out of context.

No one makes a mockery of opinions that are backed up by facts. I would say that we all have "difficulty wording things" when it comes to controversial topics about which we are passionate. Debating contentious topics is hard work.

Well if I had better language skills maybe I could word it so people understand, but I don't.

The general rule of thumb would be that if you make a sweeping statement, have some solid facts to back it up. We can all have opinions, and are entitled/encouraged to share them - but if we are using our personal opinions in a debate, they need to be informed opinions. This is where a few Janeway supporters (and even myself) have come unraveled when discussing the post-Janeway VOY novels in this thread, because if you haven't read them all, you don't have an informed opinion on their content or style.

Well it wasn't my intention to address it to anyone in particular, I apologize if it came across that way, i thought you quote it to keep it fresh so people don't have to flick through the whole thread.

When threads are made like this I thought people who signed the petition would be discussing how to get more signatures and how to promote the cause.

 

[Sector 7]

Why are you people still at it?

Their lives are empty without their fictional bipolar excuse of a captain apparently.

Saying "Their lives are empty..." is not the way to win your point.

While Janeway is, indeed, a "fictional, bipolar excuse of a captain" [I corrected your sentence with the appropriate comma... gotta watch that punctuation when attacking a fictional character], you forgot to add the most important part... over-caffeinated.

No, I cannot in good conscience sign any petition to "Bring Back Janeway". Leave her wherever she ended up. While I loved the series, Janeway's constant contradictions made her my least favorite character. Making her an admiral for merely getting most of her crew back alive, in spite of her misconduct and bipolar decision making, was not the right thing to do. Had it not been bad publicity, she should have been brought to a court-martial.

 

[Gypsyspirit]

Why are you people still at it?

Their lives are empty without their fictional bipolar excuse of a captain apparently.

Saying "Their lives are empty..." is not the way to win your point.

While Janeway is, indeed, a "fictional, bipolar excuse of a captain" [I corrected your sentence with the appropriate comma... gotta watch that punctuation when attacking a fictional character], you forgot to add the most important part... over-caffeinated.

No, I cannot in good conscience sign any petition to "Bring Back Janeway". Leave her wherever she ended up. While I loved the series, Janeway's constant contradictions made her my least favorite character. Making her an admiral for merely getting most of her crew back alive, in spite of her misconduct and bipolar decision making, was not the right thing to do. Had it not been bad publicity, she should have been brought to a court-martial.

Pure Targ crap my dear Sir!

( i re-registered to this horrible forum purely to tell u this, so u should feel honored :-)

 

[Relayer1]

Whether you are a Janeway fan or not (I have made my feelings known), by posting here, the topic of a petition is automatically a discussion point, and the fact that we are still going shows that it is still valid.

Pro or anti posts are keeping it fresh and exposing it to new readers who otherwise might not see it. Some will sign up - it's all good for the campaign !

 

[Killandra]

I haven't ATTACKED anyone. I didn't aim it at you personally. I was speaking in general about people's posts on this thread and threads to do with bringing KJ back.

But you addressed the issue of flaming in a reply to a post involving a quoted discussion between Killandra and Therin of Andor, neither of whom had flamed you. We did question the validity of your previous statement that Elvis didn't write his own songs, and we were curious as to just who you were accusing of flaming.

No one makes a mockery of opinions that are backed up by facts. I would say that we all have "difficulty wording things" when it comes to controversial topics about which we are passionate. Debating contentious topics is hard work.

Well if I had better language skills maybe I could word it so people understand, but I don't.

The general rule of thumb would be that if you make a sweeping statement, have some solid facts to back it up. We can all have opinions, and are entitled/encouraged to share them - but if we are using our personal opinions in a debate, they need to be informed opinions. This is where a few Janeway supporters (and even myself) have come unraveled when discussing the post-Janeway VOY novels in this thread, because if you haven't read them all, you don't have an informed opinion on their content or style.

Well it wasn't my intention to address it to anyone in particular, I apologize if it came across that way, i thought you quote it to keep it fresh so people don't have to flick through the whole thread.

When threads are made like this I thought people who signed the petition would be discussing how to get more signatures and how to promote the cause.

Capt. Jaysee: Apology accepted. I apologize if I came off a bit cross in my reply, but I was upset and offended how your statements originally came across. Let's just move on and forget this incident, eh?

Therin of Andor: Once again in the short time I've been active here, I'm impressed with your candor and brilliance.

 

[Killandra]

Whether you are a Janeway fan or not (I have made my feelings known), by posting here, the topic of a petition is automatically a discussion point, and the fact that we are still going shows that it is still valid.

Pro or anti posts are keeping it fresh and exposing it to new readers who otherwise might not see it. Some will sign up - it's all good for the campaign !

I concur, but hopefully we can continue to do so in a more civil manner.