The Dark Knight Rises Anticipation Station

[sonak]

Did Bruce break his rule against killing his enemies in the first film?

Ra’s was on the train. Bruce sent Gordon ahead with the Batmobile to destroy part of the track. Meanwhile, Bruce engaged Ra’s in combat, which kept Ra’s from becoming aware of the gap or extricating himself from the situation.

How is that not killing?

This is what frustrates me about the part where he goes out of his way to rescue the Joker from falling at the end of TDK. I mean, he didn't do that for Ra's in BB or Harvey at the end of TDK.

He caused Dent's death directly. Yes, it was to save Gordon's son, but it was still killing, just not murder. The situation with the Joker would have been self-defense as the Joker had Batman pinned, and given his nature, might very well have killed him.


one of the things I liked about the Burton movies was that Batman was pragmatic about killing. He didn't go out of his way to kill criminals or kill them in cold blood, but he could kill when he had to.

If Nolan were really interested in "comic book realism," he'd have Batman kill occasionally, as a vigilante in his situation would probably have to do.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Another thing I hated about him saving the Joker was how physically impossible it was. Quite a lucky shot for the grapple to catch him (either his waste, leg, or ankle) but it would be impossible for any man to have the strength to pull the joker up without something to offer physical counter-balance. Of course they show him in a successive shot using a girder for counterbalance but there is no way for Batman to have positioned the grapple around the girder.

Nolan is a good filmmaker who somehow always covers his ass of a myriad of sins by clever and rather sneaky editing. Most of the last hour of the Dark Knight felt like a montage rather than a film comprised of scenes that actually play out.

 

[jbny67]

Bruce probably killed a dozen or more people in Batman Begins. He could have also killed a lot of cops during the car chase in the end, we never saw what happened to those poor guys.

Wasn't there a line on the TV news report that said something such as "nobody was hurt"? Hand wave fix, no doubt, but I thought I remember hearing something like that.

That scene had Alfred ripping into Bruce about the whole thing. Basically telling him that he took things too far and he was lucky nobody was hurt.
I always looked at it as part of the growing pains of becoming Batman. Sometimes he's going to push things too far.
Alfred served the purpose of a reality check, keeping Bruce in line.
Lucius served the same purpose in The Dark Knight in regard to the sonar device.

 

[Broccoli]

Nolan is a good filmmaker who somehow always covers his ass of a myriad of sins by clever and rather sneaky editing. Most of the last hour of the Dark Knight felt like a montage rather than a film comprised of scenes that actually play out.

Truth.

Bruce probably killed a dozen or more people in Batman Begins. He could have also killed a lot of cops during the car chase in the end, we never saw what happened to those poor guys.

Wasn't there a line on the TV news report that said something such as "nobody was hurt"? Hand wave fix, no doubt, but I thought I remember hearing something like that.

That scene had Alfred ripping into Bruce about the whole thing. Basically telling him that he took things too far and he was lucky nobody was hurt.

Yep! That's it.

Still a hand wave, though.

 

[Captaindemotion]

http://www.moviehole.net/201251206-batmans-bane-will-now-speak-clearer

^ You can work it out from the title. If the story is to be believed (though it's somewhat suspect, I reckon), Nolan has succumbed to studio pressure and tidied up the sound so Bane is now more comprehensible.

 

[JD]

There was a story about this on Blastr, and the update there says WB is denying that.

 

[Set Harth]

The funny thing about the Bane situation is that if there was ever a time for ADR, this seems to be it. You don't even have to worry about lip-sync!

He caused Dent's death directly. Yes, it was to save Gordon's son, but it was still killing, just not murder.

If Nolan were really interested in "comic book realism," he'd have Batman kill occasionally, as a vigilante in his situation would probably have to do.

You seem to contradict yourself.

 

[JarodRussell]

I think this whole "Nolan doesn't want ADR" is misreported. It came up during the production of TDK, when Heath Ledger died and they couldn't do any ADR for the Joker anymore, and Nolan said they don't need to because the sound in his takes was good enough.

 

[sonak]

The funny thing about the Bane situation is that if there was ever a time for ADR, this seems to be it. You don't even have to worry about lip-sync!

He caused Dent's death directly. Yes, it was to save Gordon's son, but it was still killing, just not murder.

If Nolan were really interested in "comic book realism," he'd have Batman kill occasionally, as a vigilante in his situation would probably have to do.

You seem to contradict yourself.

no I don't.

 

[Captrek]

The funny thing about the Bane situation is that if there was ever a time for ADR, this seems to be it. You don't even have to worry about lip-sync!

He caused Dent's death directly. Yes, it was to save Gordon's son, but it was still killing, just not murder.

If Nolan were really interested in "comic book realism," he'd have Batman kill occasionally, as a vigilante in his situation would probably have to do.

You seem to contradict yourself.

no I don't.

I don’t see a contradiction here. It says first that Bruce breaks his “I don’t kill my enemies” rules, and second that it’s not realistic for someone in his position to keep such a rule. So if you’re going to kill, kill, and stop saying you’re honoring some personal rule that you never kill your enemies.

Although Bruce often claims he refuses to kill his enemy, Batman Begins initially introduces a weaker and more realistic version of the rule, when Bruce states simply that he won’t be an executioner.

Dent’s death is by no means an execution. It’s the collateral damage from saving the little Gordon. The only alternative to killing Dent is sacrificing the hostage. In that situation, by all means, kill!

Ra’s’s death is more morally ambiguous. Bruce derails an occupied train, has an opportunity to extract the passenger and deliver him to police, but chooses to leave him there to die. That looks an awful lot like an execution.

 

[sonak]

The funny thing about the Bane situation is that if there was ever a time for ADR, this seems to be it. You don't even have to worry about lip-sync!



You seem to contradict yourself.

no I don't.

I don’t see a contradiction here. It says first that Bruce breaks his “I don’t kill my enemies” rules, and second that it’s not realistic for someone in his position to keep such a rule. So if you’re going to kill, kill, and stop saying you’re honoring some personal rule that you never kill your enemies.

Although Bruce often claims he refuses to kill his enemy, Batman Begins initially introduces a weaker and more realistic version of the rule, when Bruce states simply that he won’t be an executioner.

Dent’s death is by no means an execution. It’s the collateral damage from saving the little Gordon. The only alternative to killing Dent is sacrificing the hostage. In that situation, by all means, kill!

Ra’s’s death is more morally ambiguous. Bruce derails an occupied train, has an opportunity to extract the passenger and deliver him to police, but chooses to leave him there to die. That looks an awful lot like an execution.

good summary

 

[Samurai8472]

Conan O'brien just made fun of the whole Bane dialogue situation

It's official the whole thing has become a pop culture trend.

*Awaits fan parodies with Batman and Bane and neither one understanding each other on funnyordie or college humor*

 

[JacksonArcher]

*Awaits fan parodies with Batman and Bane and neither one understanding each other on funnyordie or college humor*

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW-BxAU2xvo[/yt]

 

[Samurai8472]

*Awaits fan parodies with Batman and Bane and neither one understanding each other on funnyordie or college humor*

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teuR--JbSm8[/YT]

 

[Trekker4747]

*Awaits fan parodies with Batman and Bane and neither one understanding each other on funnyordie or college humor*

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW-BxAU2xvo[/yt]

That would be funny if not for the fact that we could understand what they were saying the entire time, until it became necessary to the joke for them to speak in gibberish.

 

[JD]

Yeah, jokes about not understanding people don't work that well when you can understand them.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Watching
the first film again, listening to how they say that a man can be destroyed but a symbol can be incorruptible, and then watching the TDKR teaser again, I think they will kill of Bruce.

It could be that Gordon-Levitt is a cop who will take up the mantle of the batman...

 

[Admiral_Young]

I think some are making more of John Blake than they should by connecting him with Bruce. All we know about him is that he's part of a special task force under Gordon's command. We don't know what that task force is yet of course. I do think that he has an unique role to play in the film but not what so many fans seem to be thinking. The symbol being more than a man is an interesting theme to consider...but again I believe that Rises is going to be about Bruce fully accepting being Batman and having to rise to defeat Bane after being crippled by him. Killing Bruce Wayne is just too drastic for any Batman film to undertake, doesn't matter if they're rebooting the franchise after wards or not. I very much doubt DC Ent/Warner Bros would approve of this as well. Nolan or not.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Most likely we'll see Batman standing on the rooftops of Gotham at night, as per usual.

 

[JarodRussell]

I think he gives up being Batman, and continues the work of his father, as Bruce Wayne. That would create a nice circle, in my opinion.

In Batman Begins, Wayne thought fighting crime needs a symbol that cannot be destroyed. In TDK, we see that the symbol actually makes things worse, and that you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. TDKR seems to be about poor vs. rich in a way, so it seems he failed to do good things as Bruce Wayne. And it seems that Bane actually manages to destroy Batman, also as a symbol.

So I guess Wayne returns as Batman one last time only to kick Bane's ass, and then retires.