And now there'll be no more Picards...

[Spot's Meow]

Sometimes I think to the future and wonder, if I don't manage to have kids the traditional way, or if I don't find a mate to spend my life with, what about adoption? I've genuinely never had much of a desire for a romantic relationship or to get married, but I think I would make an awesome dad. If I could reproduce asexually, I probably would.

You remind me of the male version of myself more and more with every post of yours that I read. If we lived in the same area we could become asexual roommates who adopt a child together. You could help me work out more often and I could help plan all of your meals.


I guess I'd never really given it much thought before, but our family line is likely to die in my generation. My parents had four girls. One of us is already married and took her husband's last name, and I think the rest of us are very likely to do the same (well, I don't know what I'll do, like RoJoHen I'm not into the romance of marriage and I don't see myself having children, unless I decide to adopt). So, unless one of us has a child out of wedlock that takes the mother's name, or we just decide for some reason not to take our husbands' name, our family name will die out (this branch of it at least). My dad had one half-brother with the same name, but he died before having any children. I have no male cousins with the name either.

 

[RoJoHen]

You remind me of the male version of myself more and more with every post of yours that I read. If we lived in the same area we could become asexual roommates who adopt a child together. You could help me work out more often and I could help plan all of your meals.

Hey, I've heard worse plans!

 

[scotpens]

I don’t see what’s so special about my surname, or my DNA, that mandates they be passed on to the next generation. In any case, I have a niece and nephew (my brother’s children) which lets me off the hook.

OTOH, I feel that this woman has a public duty to bear at least one child. The Barrymore dynasty must continue!

 

[TorontoTrekker]

The way I look at it, it's my parents' fault for not having more than one child.

I have no children, have no interest in having children, and won't accidentally find myself fathering any, so I'll be the last of my particular line. I have some cousins, but they're all on my mother's side (my father was, like me, an only child), so they all have different surnames.

Its pretty difficult to adopt if yer single. Especially in the States, where I assume you live. Its not impossible of course, but its frowned upon.

Well, David Gerrold managed to pull off the feat while not only being single, but being gay as well. From what I've heard, he had to jump through some extra hoops to do it, but things seem to have worked out quite well. (I've never met Sean, but from the way David talks about him, they seem to have a very good relationship.)

 

[Kirby]

I have a son and a daughter and my brother has two sons, so our name will live on for at least another generation.
My wife has three sisters and a brother. The brother didn't get married until he was almost 40, but now he has a son to carry on their family name. It otherwise would have ended there since my father in law only had sisters.

 

[SmoothieX]

As time goes by, I think about it more and more. It was difficult to admit at first, but I think I'd like it.

 

[Daneel]

I don't really feel any obligation to have children, at least not in a "carrying on the family name" way. It's not like our family name is steeped in some rich history and long-standing traditions. So I don't see any overwhelming need to continue the "legacy".

I do think, however, that my parents would like to have grandchildren someday. They haven't pushed it (perhaps because of age... my mom just hit fifty this year), but they've mentioned it a few times, in hopeful tones.

I don't know... I'm not opposed to the idea of having children, but it just doesn't seem likely. I've never had a serious relationship with a woman, and that usually seems to be an important part of starting a family.

Honestly, if it doesn't happen, I'm okay with that -- but yeah, my parents will probably be a little disappointed. They still have my sister, of course, but she hasn't fared much better with relationships than I have (she's actually had a few, but none of them lasted very long). Plus, with her being gay, having children might be a bit more complicated (though certainly not impossible).

Of course, some people who know me are convinced that I will have children someday, because I'm actually pretty good with kids. Accordingly, they think I'd make a good dad. Eh, who knows, stranger things have happened...

 

[Holdfast]

This is something that has been weighing heavily on me as time passes by... What I am concerned about is not doing justice to the lives and efforts of my parents and grandparents.

I am my dad's only child. My mother re-married and I have one half-brother. My maternal grand-parents had my mother and a son, who has one child. So, a very small family.

These are all people I love, who spend not inconsiderable effort over not inconsiderable amounts of time raising children, with me being the result. I would like to make sure that all that effort and love they put in making me the person I am today was not a waste, that I will be able to pass it on to the next generation.

An interesting and heartfelt reply.

I have a large extended family on both sides; that will not die out any time soon. But I don't feel deeply emotionally connected to them as they all live abroad in various countries and at most I've only briefly met some of them. Like you, I'm an only child, and as only my mother & father lived in this country, when my mother passed some years ago there's only the two of us left.

I'm sure my father would like grandchildren. Equally, I'm sure I would find it very challenging to (actively) be a parent and it's not a task I want to take on. Maybe at some point in the future I will feel differently, but I can say with confidence it's not something I want right now nor in my immediate future.

As there is no guarantee that I will change my mind, I wonder if my immediate family line will die with me and, like you, I do sometimes feel that it would be somewhat wasteful of all the multi-generational effort preceding me.

I rationalise this away through a simple belief that that effort has created value in me that can go on to be transmuted and preserved for posterity in other ways; a greater immortality of the family name through works and endowments. Biological matter fades away quickly anyway and is highly subject to the fickle fates. Appropriately endowed constructs generally fade at slower rate. I have a couple of plans in mind to preserve the family name. I'll need some more time first though, so hopefully fate is kind enough to grant me that room to manoeuvre!

 

[iguana_tonante]

I do sometimes feel that it would be somewhat wasteful of all the multi-generational effort preceding me.

I could understand that from anyone else, but... you? I mean, look at yourself. How could anything that brought upon the world such a fine gentlemanly fellow be a waste?

 

[Bisz]

Biological matter fades away quickly anyway and is highly subject to the fickle fates. Appropriately endowed constructs generally fade at slower rate. I have a couple of plans in mind to preserve the family name. I'll need some more time first though, so hopefully fate is kind enough to grant me that room to manoeuvre!

So, you are saying that instead of having kids to preserve a part of myself and my fore-bearers I should make a gigantic stone statue of us?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't think it's a waste to decide you don't want kids.

To be blunt: Nobody asks to be born. True, your parents did put a lot of work into raising you, but did you ask for that? No. And in any case, the way that you pay your parents back for that is by loving them back, by being a good child, and by growing into a responsible adult of your own. That is all any of us are obligated to do. Even if our parents lay a major fucking guilt trip on us by whining about not having grandchildren, which fortunately, my dad has not done with me.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I thought this was about Paramount and CBS issuing a joint press release that, even though they can't agree on anything else, they have agreed to kill off Picard permanently.

Anyway, I figure my ancestors have the whole "continuing the family line" thing covered in all their other descendents. And I come from a big family, so the minority of kids who end up having kids have the rest of us covered. It's all patriarchial malarky anyway.

 

[Holdfast]

I do sometimes feel that it would be somewhat wasteful of all the multi-generational effort preceding me.

I could understand that from anyone else, but... you? I mean, look at yourself. How could anything that brought upon the world such a fine gentlemanly fellow be a waste?

I think the para in my post following the line you quoted should reassure you that my narcissim/egotism remains entirely intact, but thank you for the top-up anyway.

Biological matter fades away quickly anyway and is highly subject to the fickle fates. Appropriately endowed constructs generally fade at slower rate. I have a couple of plans in mind to preserve the family name. I'll need some more time first though, so hopefully fate is kind enough to grant me that room to manoeuvre!

So, you are saying that instead of having kids to preserve a part of myself and my fore-bearers I should make a gigantic stone statue of us?

Well, if that is enough for you to feel posterity is served, then yes!

Personally, I'd be worried about erosion. And the pigeons.

Seriously, I have a pipe-dream to have a chair named after me at my old university, or if that proves too expensive, at least a significant grant of some sort. If adequately endowed, it could last centuries or even indefinitely. That's a fairly reassuring mark on posterity. Obviously, others might consider that sort of legacy utterly trivial, but to me it feels enough. And certainly a more reliable projection into the future than children.

I don't think it's a waste to decide you don't want kids.

To be blunt: Nobody asks to be born. True, your parents did put a lot of work into raising you, but did you ask for that? No. And in any case, the way that you pay your parents back for that is by loving them back, by being a good child, and by growing into a responsible adult of your own. That is all any of us are obligated to do. Even if our parents lay a major fucking guilt trip on us by whining about not having grandchildren, which fortunately, my dad has not done with me.

I think I speak for at least a few people in this thread (and myself of course) when I say that the feelings we're discussing don't stem from a sense of obligation (which has a negative connotation) but a sense of wanting a sense of fulfilment regarding our place in the world (something akin to Eriksonian Ego Integrity, or Jungian Individuation). This is a positive desire, I feel, and actually much more selfish (in an ego-driven sense, not a negative sense) in origin.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I rationalise this away through a simple belief that that effort has created value in me that can go on to be transmuted and preserved for posterity in other ways; a greater immortality of the family name through works and endowments.

I agree. I won't be passing along the family name to any children, but I will be leaving behind a body of literature, poetry and art to my niece and nephew.

Also, I'm going to build a pyramid.

 

[Australis]

Well, I've done the whole breeding thing. Have 2 sons. One of them at least will carry on the name. I suspect the eldest of the eldest (me) of the (legitimate) eldest (my dad) will be the one.

Go back 7 generations, and your surname comes from one of 4096 people. A point to ponder.

On a personal level, I'm glad the name is not ending with/because of me.

 

[RandyS]

I rationalise this away through a simple belief that that effort has created value in me that can go on to be transmuted and preserved for posterity in other ways; a greater immortality of the family name through works and endowments.

I agree. I won't be passing along the family name to any children, but I will be leaving behind a body of literature, poetry and art to my niece and nephew.

Also, I'm going to build a pyramid.

Could I sign it's base? Then I'll leave a legacy too.

Although, what I'd REALLY like to do is carve "Randy was here" across the roof of the Oval Office, but the damned Secret Service might have a problem with that.

 

[Warp Coil]

Do you feel a responsibility to carry on your family line?

To an extent. My family is very small. There were 3 children on my Mom's side of the family (including her) and 5 children on my Dad's side of the family (including him). Out of all those people, they only produced three offspring - myself, my brother and my cousin.

I turned 30 this year. My cousin is 33 and my brother is 34. None of us are married or in serious relationships (my cousin was engaged at one point but they broke it off). There's no way that my brother will ever settle down and have kids. He doesn't even have girlfriends, really (more like girls that he sees to hook up with, but that doesn't last for long). He's too immature and too selfish to have kids.

I really haven't been dating, either, but I've been slowly testing the waters this year (baby steps). I think turning 30 freaked me out and now I worry that my entire life is going to pass me by. But I don't know if I'll ever have a long-term relationship and kids. I'm perfectly happy by myself, at least the vast majority of the time. Also, I'm a little selfish and I'm not entirely kid-friendly. Many of my friends have kids and I see how irritating and resource-draining they are. Yet, at the same time, part of me thinks that having my own kids would change my opinion of them. I also look at my small, dwindling family and feel a need to reinvigorate it with a new generation to keep traditions 'n such going.

I am very thankful that my parents don't pressure us. They don't nag about our personal lives, ask us why we aren't dating or married, or try to guilt trip us into giving them grandchildren.

 

[Holdfast]

I rationalise this away through a simple belief that that effort has created value in me that can go on to be transmuted and preserved for posterity in other ways; a greater immortality of the family name through works and endowments.

I agree. I won't be passing along the family name to any children, but I will be leaving behind a body of literature, poetry and art to my niece and nephew.

Also, I'm going to build a pyramid.

I like the pyramid idea. A hugely elaborate giant mausoleum could be just the ticket...

I went to the new Egyptian Wing at a local museum a month or so ago, and one cool thing they've done is rebuild an Egyptian shrine to a particular Pharaoh in such a way that you can walk all around it. The carvings are still quite fresh. Now that's leaving your mark on history.

Go back 7 generations, and your surname comes from one of 4096 people. A point to ponder.

Funnily enough, I know fairly accurately when my surname started in my family; it was given to a specific ancestor in recognition of their service and used by his family thereafter. Of course, their original surname would be more likely to obey your principle, I suppose. But surnames aren't immutable, so the wider point in the thread about it potentially dying out is true enough.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I rationalise this away through a simple belief that that effort has created value in me that can go on to be transmuted and preserved for posterity in other ways; a greater immortality of the family name through works and endowments.

I agree. I won't be passing along the family name to any children, but I will be leaving behind a body of literature, poetry and art to my niece and nephew.

Also, I'm going to build a pyramid.

Could I sign it's base? Then I'll leave a legacy too.

Sure. There will be plenty of room. It's going to be huge.

I like the pyramid idea. A hugely elaborate giant mausoleum could be just the ticket...

Yeah. Among other things, you get to put curses on people.

 

[Bisz]

So, you are saying that instead of having kids to preserve a part of myself and my fore-bearers I should make a gigantic stone statue of us?

Well, if that is enough for you to feel posterity is served, then yes!

Personally, I'd be worried about erosion. And the pigeons.

The statue was just a cover for my real ambition, to have the planet re-named after me.

I think I speak for at least a few people in this thread (and myself of course) when I say that the feelings we're discussing don't stem from a sense of obligation (which has a negative connotation) but a sense of wanting a sense of fulfilment regarding our place in the world (something akin to Eriksonian Ego Integrity, or Jungian Individuation). This is a positive desire, I feel, and actually much more selfish (in an ego-driven sense, not a negative sense) in origin.

Pretty much spot on. The "pressure" is all self-imposed, its not an obligation, its a desire.