Sarek: Are Vulcans Constantly Fighting Their Inner Emotions?

[TerragonSix]

This is from the episode, 'Sarek' Season 3. Sarek, father of Spock, is getting old, and suffering from Bendii Syndrome, an illness which no longer allows a Vulcan to control their emotions. In order for Sarek to complete his mission, he mind melds with Picard to allow him mental stability to complete talks with a race wanting to join the Federation.

During the talks, we see Picard, due to the mind meld, we see Sarek's inner thoughts: such as anguish at not being able to show love to his son, and two wifes.

We are fed a bunch of stuff about how Vulcans eradicate their emotions for a more logical sense of purpose. Now, they very well may attempt this; but do they really? Even the ones who supposedly reach Kol'linar?

If the emotion is not eradicated, it still has to be there, as there is such a thing as 'Bendii Syndrome' for Vulcans to lose control of it.

Seems to me, that if it is impossible to completely eliminate an emotion, it seems highly illogical to attempt to suppress it.

 

[BillJ]

Well, it simply came down to either suppressing their violent emotions or destroying themselves.

 

[TerragonSix]

Well, it simply came down to either suppressing their violent emotions or destroying themselves.

Violent, I may be able to see.

But all?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Most adult Vulcans do HAVE emotions - they just don't express them. (Only the Kolinahr are completely without emotion.) So yes, Vulcans are indeed constantly fighting within themselves.

If a typical Vulcan, such as Sarek or Spock, actively 'felt' their emotions, it would probably kill them. In their raw form, Vulcan emotions are even more dangerous than human ones. (AFAIK, during the worst wartime on Vulcan, there was never any more than 10% of the population who was not actively at war.)

 

[TerragonSix]

Which, of course, explains the Romulan offshoot of the Vulcans.

Not all of the Vulcans embraced the idea of attempting to suppress their emotion.

But they embrace their emotions. Two opposite ends of a pendulum.

Why wasn't there an offshoot that wanted a balance? Spock was the closest thing we see to this but it doesn't count; he's half-human.

 

[BillJ]

Well, it simply came down to either suppressing their violent emotions or destroying themselves.

Violent, I may be able to see.

But all?

Vulcans simply see it as an all-or-nothing proposition. How can you purge hate and keep love when love often times drives hatred and other violent emotions?

 

[RoJoHen]

Vulcans don't eradicate their emotions. They are a naturally violent people, and they have learned to control that violence through meditation and logic. They still feel; they just don't let those feelings influence their actions. Any Vulcan who says he doesn't have emotions is a liar.

 

[sonak]

Well, it simply came down to either suppressing their violent emotions or destroying themselves.

Violent, I may be able to see.

But all?

Vulcans simply see it as an all-or-nothing proposition. How can you purge hate and keep love when love often times drives hatred and other violent emotions?

well, except Sybok pretty much proves you can be a Vulcan, embrace your emotions, and not end up a violent sociopath. True, he was a religious fanatic, but I think that was a personal thing and not connected to his rejection of suppressing emotions.

 

[BillJ]

Violent, I may be able to see.

But all?

Vulcans simply see it as an all-or-nothing proposition. How can you purge hate and keep love when love often times drives hatred and other violent emotions?

well, except Sybok pretty much proves you can be a Vulcan, embrace your emotions, and not end up a violent sociopath. True, he was a religious fanatic, but I think that was a personal thing and not connected to his rejection of suppressing emotions.

Sybok wasn't a sociopath by human standards, but I'm sure the Vulcans see him as unbalanced. Plus we've only seen a sliver of his life, so it's hard to make an educated guess about his character.

 

[sonak]

well he goes around healing folks' psychological pain and tries to avoid violence whenever possible.

He qualifies as a nice sort of guy by most standards, except for the ship hijacking stuff.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Sybok didn't heal pain; he took it away. That's an important difference.

As Kirk said:

I don't want my pain taken away. I NEED my pain! They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. We lose them, we lose ourselves!

 

[sonak]

Sybok didn't heal pain; he took it away. That's an important difference.

As Kirk said:

I don't want my pain taken away. I NEED my pain! They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. We lose them, we lose ourselves!

semantics. He wasn't removing memories, he was just releasing the guilt or pain associated with them.

 

[7thsealord]

well he goes around healing folks' psychological pain and tries to avoid violence whenever possible.

He qualifies as a nice sort of guy by most standards, except for the ship hijacking stuff.

As the old saying goes, the road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions.

Noting also that there isn't much canonical data on what Sybok was doing besides looking for Paradise, prior his appearance in ST5. For all we know, he could have been collecting bodyparts in his spare time.

Then again, maybe not. We just don't know.

The fact that he was so totally on the outs with Vulcans in general says something. OK, going against the cultural norm by embracing emotion might explain this.

But, to the extent that even his father and half-brother never ever so much as acknowledged his existance (especially given that those two never always agreed with each other anyhow)? Have to wonder if there was something more to it.

 

[TerragonSix]

Sybok didn't heal pain; he took it away. That's an important difference.

As Kirk said:

I don't want my pain taken away. I NEED my pain! They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. We lose them, we lose ourselves!

semantics. He wasn't removing memories, he was just releasing the guilt or pain associated with them.[/QUOTE

Actually, it is important.

As a duty-bound Medic (Inactive), I can sufficiently say that there is an epidemic 'pill cure' train of thought, going around in today's world. Have trouble paying attention? Take a pill. Mild headaches? Take a pill. Temporary joint pain? Take a pill. Your wife divorced you? Life overall stressing you out? Take a pill. (I'm not counting crippling conditions where drug therapy is a must, not an option)

This is not a cure for the condition. This is merely a temporary relief. In my opinion, it can even handicap the individual to where of instead of focusing on reality, they assume their only 'cure' is continued use of the pill.

I apply that to this. Sybok offers nothing but a hollow hope, a false cure. Everyone needs their pain and stress to function. It is, in many ways, one of the reasons humanity has survived through the years.

To be fair, we are not sure of the scope of the way Sybok 'cures'. We know its only temporary though. Not permanent. Sybok does not use his powers to heal people; rather to recruit and suborn followers on his fanatic quest for God.

 

[sonak]

Sybok didn't heal pain; he took it away. That's an important difference.

As Kirk said:

semantics. He wasn't removing memories, he was just releasing the guilt or pain associated with them.[/QUOTE

Actually, it is important.

As a duty-bound Medic (Inactive), I can sufficiently say that there is an epidemic 'pill cure' train of thought, going around in today's world. Have trouble paying attention? Take a pill. Mild headaches? Take a pill. Temporary joint pain? Take a pill. Your wife divorced you? Life overall stressing you out? Take a pill. (I'm not counting crippling conditions where drug therapy is a must, not an option)

This is not a cure for the condition. This is merely a temporary relief. In my opinion, it can even handicap the individual to where of instead of focusing on reality, they assume their only 'cure' is continued use of the pill.

I apply that to this. Sybok offers nothing but a hollow hope, a false cure. Everyone needs their pain and stress to function. It is, in many ways, one of the reasons humanity has survived through the years.

To be fair, we are not sure of the scope of the way Sybok 'cures'. We know its only temporary though. Not permanent. Sybok does not use his powers to heal people; rather to recruit and suborn followers on his fanatic quest for God.

well you're conflating very different things. Taking a pill for temporary joint pain or a temporary headache seems very sensible to me. Then you jump to "if your wife leaves you," but that's not the same sort of situation at all.

That's like saying that since a band-aid won't fix a broken leg you shouldn't use one for a minor cut.

 

[sonak]

well he goes around healing folks' psychological pain and tries to avoid violence whenever possible.

He qualifies as a nice sort of guy by most standards, except for the ship hijacking stuff.

As the old saying goes, the road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions.

Noting also that there isn't much canonical data on what Sybok was doing besides looking for Paradise, prior his appearance in ST5. For all we know, he could have been collecting bodyparts in his spare time.

Then again, maybe not. We just don't know.

The fact that he was so totally on the outs with Vulcans in general says something. OK, going against the cultural norm by embracing emotion might explain this.

But, to the extent that even his father and half-brother never ever so much as acknowledged his existance (especially given that those two never always agreed with each other anyhow)? Have to wonder if there was something more to it.

um, not according to what Spock himself says. He pretty much indicates that Sybok was an outcast due to his unorthodox beliefs. If you want to conjure up possibilities that there's no evidence for, then there's no limit on what we can speculate.

 

[7thsealord]

well he goes around healing folks' psychological pain and tries to avoid violence whenever possible.

He qualifies as a nice sort of guy by most standards, except for the ship hijacking stuff.

As the old saying goes, the road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions.

Noting also that there isn't much canonical data on what Sybok was doing besides looking for Paradise, prior his appearance in ST5. For all we know, he could have been collecting bodyparts in his spare time.

Then again, maybe not. We just don't know.

The fact that he was so totally on the outs with Vulcans in general says something. OK, going against the cultural norm by embracing emotion might explain this.

But, to the extent that even his father and half-brother never ever so much as acknowledged his existance (especially given that those two never always agreed with each other anyhow)? Have to wonder if there was something more to it.

um, not according to what Spock himself says. He pretty much indicates that Sybok was an outcast due to his unorthodox beliefs. If you want to conjure up possibilities that there's no evidence for, then there's no limit on what we can speculate.

Yair, "pretty much indicates Sybok is an 'outcast due to his unorthodox beliefs'" is such a precise, in-depth and unequivocal description of Sybok.

I humbly stand corrected, and in awe of your superior insights.

 

[DataLoreSpock]

Vulcans have a tendency to want to seem completely immerced in the logical arts.
In a sense, any Vulcans such as Sybok were outcasted due to their as 7thsealord quoted "outcast due to his unorthodox beliefs".
It is then safe to say that most Vulcans quarrel with their inner emotions.

 

[Killandra]

Vulcans have a tendency to want to seem completely immerced in the logical arts.
In a sense, any Vulcans such as Sybok were outcasted due to their as 7thsealord quoted "outcast due to his unorthodox beliefs".
It is then safe to say that most Vulcans quarrel with their inner emotions.

I would agree and I believe as we saw in other series, that some have a harder time with it than others.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

There is a great episode of Voyager called "Gravity" that deals with the constant battle to suppress emotions and why they suppress even the "good" ones. It has flashbacks to a time with Tuvok challeneged it as a young man who'd fallen in love.

Wait a minute, did I just say "great episode of Voyager?"