Vulcans are constantly fighting their inner emotional selves, some to better degree than others. Now Klingons there is a race that needs some emotional supression.
Sarek: Are Vulcans Constantly Fighting Their Inner Emotions?
- Thread starter TerragonSix
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You're right on the first, and arguably right on the second.
But, on the other hand, if most TNG+ Klingons don't like you, they will say so to your face and/or pick a fight with you. Compared with how many Vulcans conduct interspecies relations, I find that directness rather appealing.
Except the one who tried to mind-rape T'Pol and tossed Archer around like a rag doll.
His religious fanatism was even based in reality, as he actually did receive visions from that being in the center of the galaxy.
Eh, one emotional Vulcan who isn't all that nice vs all the Jerk "Normal" Vulcans we see otherwise. The ratio isn't that bad.
Mostly like what Sarak (,i.e. the founder of Vulcan logical beliefs, not Sarek/Spock's dad) did is that he discovered an innate way for Vulcan's to control their emotions or be their true selves to speak. He probably in a way was to Vulcan as Frued was in real life, he advanced and developed much of the grounding in psychology (to me Vulcan logic is the Vulcan form of psychology).
So Vulcans probably are not truly in turmoil. Sarek may have just had a Vulcan form of Alzheimer's, or some other similar degenerative condition. So the parts of the brain that Vulcans use to suppress their emotions just degraded in this case.
So Vulcans probably are not truly in turmoil. Sarek may have just had a Vulcan form of Alzheimer's, or some other similar degenerative condition. So the parts of the brain that Vulcans use to suppress their emotions just degraded in this case.
'Bendi's Syndrome', I believe you are referring to.
Also consider the immense personal shame factor in that. Vulcans are portrayed as intensely private and proud of their self-control. Yet, Bendi's Syndrome takes all that away from them - whilst (presumably) having the sufferer remain aware of what they have lost and of what others now get to see. Hard to think of what could be a worse condition for most of them to bear.
I like what Spock said in "Yesteryear." Vulcans have emotions. They control them (re: not eradicate them) and do not let them run their lives. I believe that the best Vulcans choose not to follow their emotions and act accordingly to what their intellect and experience dictates to them. I like what an earlier post said about Bendii being like Alzheimers. Bendii may be more of an intellectual control being lost. Sarek forgot mentioning Pardek to Picard and seemed genuinely confused how Picard knew about it. The same loss of intellectual control may have extended to lack of control over his telepathic ability which caused his savage emotions to be broadcast not only to other crewmembers on the ship but revealed by his own speech and actions. The lack of emotional control was a symptom of the lack of intellectual control caused by Bendii.
Which is pretty much in keeping with what we saw in NuTrek, - the scene where Sarek talked to young Spock after he administered a (well-deserved, IMO) beating to that bully.
Well said. It's a lot of work for a Vulcan to suppress their emotions, which is why they need to meditate so often.
Interesting thread.
I'm never quite sure what the relationship between Vulcans and emotions is meant to be. Sometimes it's played as suppression: burying emotions but being forever scared - consciously or unconsciously - of them rising to the surface and taking control. Other times (esp. the Kolinar ritual) it seems more like mastery, which involves acknowledging that emotions may exist but not letting them manifest externally or influence decision-making in any way. Sort of like having perfect awareness of one's inner self/unconscious mind and then separating it out from conscious decision-making.
It's interesting how all this chimes in with some several strands of human thinking e.g. Buddhist concepts of nirvana, and some psychological (esp. Jungian) and philosophical principles. What makes the Vulcans concept different is that human concepts of emotional mastery is that the human models do not prevent taking emotion into account when making decisions. In fact, they actively encourage it, but only within that wider model of mastery. Vulcans seem to act in a more divorced manner from emotion; if true, that would make them less able to intuit truth than humans. Ultimately, which version of the relationship between Vulcans and emotions we see depends on the writer; I'm not sure there's really an agreed consensus between different writers on this.
I'm never quite sure what the relationship between Vulcans and emotions is meant to be. Sometimes it's played as suppression: burying emotions but being forever scared - consciously or unconsciously - of them rising to the surface and taking control. Other times (esp. the Kolinar ritual) it seems more like mastery, which involves acknowledging that emotions may exist but not letting them manifest externally or influence decision-making in any way. Sort of like having perfect awareness of one's inner self/unconscious mind and then separating it out from conscious decision-making.
It's interesting how all this chimes in with some several strands of human thinking e.g. Buddhist concepts of nirvana, and some psychological (esp. Jungian) and philosophical principles. What makes the Vulcans concept different is that human concepts of emotional mastery is that the human models do not prevent taking emotion into account when making decisions. In fact, they actively encourage it, but only within that wider model of mastery. Vulcans seem to act in a more divorced manner from emotion; if true, that would make them less able to intuit truth than humans. Ultimately, which version of the relationship between Vulcans and emotions we see depends on the writer; I'm not sure there's really an agreed consensus between different writers on this.
As a follower of the way of Surak I would like to respond to this question. Specifically to the unspoken but implied conceit that there are such things as "good" or "bad" emotions.
The first quoted poster is quite correct in what he says. However I believe that the second quoted poster is misinterpreting the meaning of the word "violent". The violence comes not from the emotions being perpetually of a violent nature, but rather from the strength of them. A Vulcan is not merely sad but rather he is sorrowful. Not merely happy but blissful. Not simply angry but enraged. Not just in love but besotted. This is the first problem that a Vulcan faces.
The second problem is greatly exacerbated by the first but is by no means unique to Vulcans. It is the fact that emotions are not static states but rather tend to flow into each other.
If I might offer an example from my own life... I have someone with whom I am intimately involved. For a variety of reasons ours is a long distance relationship so we spend time together via chat program.
When I am anticipating getting to spend time with her I am happy. My thoughts are in joyful anticipation of the impending time when I will get to see her.
But then the time comes and she does not appear. And does not appear. And does not appear. Now I am worried. Frightened that something has happened to her. As time goes on I am angry as well.
Later when I finally get to see her I discover that she went earlier in the day to help a friend at the friends place of business and in attempting to return was prevent by an accident closing the only road between where she had been and home.
Because she assumed she would be home in time she had not emailed with any kind of a message about what she was doing.
Now I am enraged. We quarrel.
Now there are many, most in fact who would be inclined to label certain of those emotions as "good" and certain other of them as "bad". But there truth of the matter is that there is no such thing.
One of the first lessons that one learns when seeking to master one's emotions is to move away from such thinking. The truth of the matter is that the emotions simply are what they are. The good or bad comes from how I choose to act upon those emotions.
When I am so swept away with the thought of getting to see my lover that I cannot effectively focus on anything else I am doing, then my actions are out of balance. Likewise when I am consumed by fear, or rage. So the truth of the matter is that none of the above stated emotions are "good" because they were all let grow out of control and caused me to move out of balance.
In addition to that if my joyful anticipation had not been allowed to grow so strong, then my fear and anger would not have been anywhere near as strong either.
This is just one individual incident.
Now picture an entire planet of beings dealing with such levels of emotionality All Of The Time.
The ideal is to recognize whatever emotional state one is experiencing at any given moment and to utilize it in a constructive fashion while never permitting it to grow out of control.
Many times however the demands of life make this nearly impossible. Sometimes the best choice is to simply suppress the emotion in question so that one is able to function effectively.
Peace
And
Long
Life
Not invalid points but there are several factors to consider.
The first and most obvious to me is simple cultural inertia and its weight. When Surak came Vulcan was in an ongoing state of violent upheaval, and even still it took time and effort for the idea of emotional mastery to spread and be accepted. Once it was I would tend to imagine that for the first few hundred years any deviation was probably rather drastically dealt with.
So by the time you get to the time of Enterprise and beyond it is simply considered the norm and while there have been a scattering of individuals presenting an opposing view none of them have managed to (or perhaps more accurately been permitted to) gain the kind of followers that surely Surak had to have gained to go from the leader of a fringe movement, to the leader of the singular most important way of life on Vulcan.
Then there are the numbers to consider. Vulcan's violent past is a fact. One of which the Vulcan's themselves are more than well aware. So while it might in theory be alright for one Vulcan, or ten, or even a hundred to experiment with ways that deviate from the norm, if the whole of the planet were permitted to act as they choose (and of course in theory they are free to do so since as far as I know the choice has been made to use the weight of culture and tradition rather than the blunt force of law to keep people in line) then how many people would find that they were not able to enjoy their emotions while still maintaining a modicum of control? (After all the very episode that introduced Vulcans Without Logic, showed how out of control it was possible to get in the person of the individual who assaulted T'Pol.) Furthermore, how long would it be before the planet went from the peaceful stable society it has had for centuries at this point, back to the state of perpetual chaos and warfare that it barely survived in the past.
Most Vulcan's clearly do not believe it is worth taking the chance, and rightly so in my opinion.
Peace
And
Long
Life
Another factor to keep in mind is that Sarek was going through that horrible disease.
My personal canon is that Vulcans tend towards all-or-nothing when it comes to expressing emotions. If a Vulcan allows him or herself to express happiness, then when something happens that makes them angry, they find it very difficult not to express that anger as explosively as they expressed the happiness.
Obviously, not ever Vulcan needs to completely suppress every emotion - it's been a while since I watched the episode, but I believe that most of the v'tosh'katur Vulcans behaved pretty much like humans. They didn't go all VULCAN SMASH on anybody. So some Vulcans are better able to control their emotions without suppressing them completely.
