Star Wars: The Clone Wars S4

[Yevetha]

The balance would probably only be found in the eradication of both orders, which is effectively what happened at the end of ROTJ (despite its name), as Luke is no true Jedi. Luke and Leia would likely be considered grey Jedi by some standards, what with both breaking the no-personal-attachments part of the code. So I'm thinking it's really about internal balance.

How do you define Gray Jedi?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I'd always assumed that the existence of the Sith, or at least their being active, brought about an unbalancing of the Force, and by killing the Emperor and returning to the Light side Anakin rebalanced the Force.

So far, so good.

Perhaps it doesn't mean balance between Light and Dark, but more of just a peace over the whole thing which is disrupted when people use it for evil. Basically it's more of a philosophical balance, rather than a mathematical balance.

It does mean balance between light and dark. Among the sources which explicitly spell this out are Cloak of Deception, TCW's Altar of Mortis, and The Old Republic: Revan. The problem is when balance between light and dark is replaced by balance between Jedi and Sith. A parity in numbers between Jedi and Sith is not the balance discussed in the films. It is an invalid substitution. The films discussed a balance of the Force, not a balance in the membership of two organizations. A balance of one type is not automatically the same as a balance of anything else. When you take words out of a phrase and replace them with different words, you tend to change the meaning of the phrase. As depicted in the PT, the restoration of balance to the Force is something that the Jedi hope for as a possible positive outcome in the future. To assume that the Jedi look forward to an outcome of "one Sith for every Jedi" is patently absurd.

It's pretty simple then: Explain what the balance actually is, and why massive numbers of Jedi and only two Sith (if even that) keeps it "balanced."

Because the Jedi don't go around disturding the Force by blowing up planets.

 

[O'Dib]

So I'm thinking it's really about internal balance.

The Force is external to any specific person. Thus, whatever "internal balance" means, a person achieving "internal balance" does not balance the Force, because that person is not the Force. The balance of the Force is not the balance of the individual.

Yet any individual using the dark side imbalances the Force. I'm suggesting the same is true of the light side. The Force finds equilibrium in its messengers walking a middle path. But that's just a working theory.

Luke and Leia would likely be considered grey Jedi by some standards, what with both breaking the no-personal-attachments part of the code.

How do you define Gray Jedi?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi

 

[JD]

So far, so good.



It does mean balance between light and dark. Among the sources which explicitly spell this out are Cloak of Deception, TCW's Altar of Mortis, and The Old Republic: Revan. The problem is when balance between light and dark is replaced by balance between Jedi and Sith. A parity in numbers between Jedi and Sith is not the balance discussed in the films. It is an invalid substitution. The films discussed a balance of the Force, not a balance in the membership of two organizations. A balance of one type is not automatically the same as a balance of anything else. When you take words out of a phrase and replace them with different words, you tend to change the meaning of the phrase. As depicted in the PT, the restoration of balance to the Force is something that the Jedi hope for as a possible positive outcome in the future. To assume that the Jedi look forward to an outcome of "one Sith for every Jedi" is patently absurd.

It's pretty simple then: Explain what the balance actually is, and why massive numbers of Jedi and only two Sith (if even that) keeps it "balanced."

Because the Jedi don't go around disturding the Force by blowing up planets.

This is actually a pretty good way of illustrating what I think the whole balance of the Force thing might mean. The existence of the Sith isn't what does the unbalancing, it's the things they do as Sith.
As for Gray Jedi, I think they're baisically Jedi who use The Force in ways that fall under both the light and dark sides. One of the best examples of Gray Jedi would be the Imperial Knights from the Legacy comic series.

 

[Set Harth]

Yet any individual using the dark side imbalances the Force.

It is only said that the Sith unbalance the Force, not anyone using the dark side. It may not even be true for all Sith. According to EU the dark side began gaining in strength a few centuries before the films.

I'm suggesting the same is true of the light side.

Except we know that it is not. Under the scenario being suggested - where any individual using either the light side or the dark side unbalances the Force - the Force is unbalanced whenever anyone is using it, and is only in balance when no one is using it ( or equivalently when there are no Force users ). But this does not fit with the films and is not consistent with Lucas' view of balance. The Jedi do not intend to wipe themselves out, nor would such an occurrence be a positive outcome. The end of ROTJ leaves us with Luke as a ( non-dark ) Jedi and yet the Force is said to be balanced at that point. In the PT there are 9000-10000 Jedi and only two Sith, while the Force is unbalanced toward the dark. It is made clear that the destiny of the Chosen One is to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force. In other words, this balance would not be hindered by the existence of lightsiders. The assumption that the Jedi unbalance the Force in anti-Sith fashion leads to the scenario where an equal number of Jedi and Sith cancel each other out. Thus it quickly becomes a Trojan horse for the same old same old: balance of the Force being redefined as parity between the numbers of Jedi and Sith. This is simply wrong; it contradicts the films, is not supported in any official source, and results from an invalid substitution which changes the balance of the sides of the Force into something completely different.

 

[O'Dib]

*does reasearch* Can't argue with Wookiepedia.

Alright, new idea. As far as Lucas is concerned, the story of the prophecy ends with ROTJ. But a final (or is it?) defeat of the Sith doesn't come until more than a 100 years after, in the EU. So, the Chosen One could refer to the entire Skywalker line, as they kept being instrumental to all subsequent Sith smackdowns. Especially considering the possibility that Anakin was born of the Force, and midichlorian counts appear to be hereditary to some extent; Or at least wouldn't dilute as fast considering some Skywalker progeny likely came from Force-sensitive couplings.

 

[Set Harth]

Especially considering the possibility that Anakin was born of the Force, and midichlorian counts appear to be hereditary to some extent; Or at least wouldn't dilute as fast considering some Skywalker progeny likely came from Force-sensitive couplings.

IIRC, somewhere it was indicated that Luke inherited Anakin's Force potential. Whether this means that Luke inherited Anakin's exact midichlorian count, or that the difference was negligible because the result was still ( relatively speaking ) in "Chosen One" territory, or just means that Luke inherited the potential to be more powerful than Palpatine, is not entirely clear. For some reason, in one of the books Vader muses that a child of him and Padme might have been gifted with Force potential "beyond measure".

 

[Hound of UIster]

George Lucas says Luke has Anakin's potential to be twice as powerful as Palpatine.

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

anyone know when the show comes back with new eps?

 

[Mr Light]

79 13 "Escape from Kadavo"[63]


January 6, 2012[63]

80 14 "A Friend in Need"[63] Dave Filoni Christian Taylor
January 13, 2012[63]
81 15 "Deception"[63]


January 20, 2012[63]
82 16 "Friends and Enemies"[63]


January 27, 2012[63]

 

[ALF]

Awesome, thanks for posting that schedule, Mr. Light.

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

anyone else think general grevious could beat general krell in a 1vs1 battle?

 

[ALF]

Grevious would whoop Krells' bitch ass.

 

[Disruptor]

Grievous got his metal behind handed to him by Gungans. GUNGANS!

With Krell it took on a clone army and a killer plant.

 

[Yevetha]

Grievous got his metal behind handed to him by Gungans. GUNGANS!

Dooku was captured by a bunch of pirates.

 

[Disruptor]

Grievous got his metal behind handed to him by Gungans. GUNGANS!

Dooku was captured by a bunch of pirates.

Yeah, but pirates can take on ninjas. And Jedi are like ninjas.

 

[Christopher]

And Jedi are like ninjas.

No, they're more like samurai -- high-profile, noble warriors who defend the ruling institutions and live by a code of honor. Ninjas were mercenaries, spies, and assassins, usually from the lower class, who strove to go unnoticed and used whatever sneaky and devious methods they needed to achieve their goals.

 

[DWF]

And Jedi are like ninjas.

No, they're more like samurai -- high-profile, noble warriors who defend the ruling institutions and live by a code of honor. Ninjas were mercenaries, spies, and assassins, usually from the lower class, who strove to go unnoticed and used whatever sneaky and devious methods they needed to achieve their goals.

More like Shaolin monks they're trained in martial arts to help to advance their understanding of the universe in general.

 

[Saul]

And Jedi are like ninjas.

No, they're more like samurai -- high-profile, noble warriors who defend the ruling institutions and live by a code of honor. Ninjas were mercenaries, spies, and assassins, usually from the lower class, who strove to go unnoticed and used whatever sneaky and devious methods they needed to achieve their goals.

More like Shaolin monks they're trained in martial arts to help to advance their understanding of the universe in general.

More like WuXia warriors from Chinese literature. Highly skilled swordsmen and women that can fly and use their chi (the force) to cause injury and push people around.

 

[Christopher]

^Oh yes, good points, especially the wuxia comparison. In any case, they're about as far from being ninjas as any sword-wielding warrior can possibly get.