The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[Dick_Valentine]

And about the SFX. Honestly, after what George Lucas did to Star Wars, I think staying true to the originals is the way to go for better or for worse. Especially since the workmanship and design work done for the models were handled with so much care and attention. HD will help us see allot the detail that was lost. For me, squeeky clean CGI has no "soul" to it. It's just too cookie cutter for my likeing. This ofcourse is just my opinion.

Last thought on this:

Just because someone else is doing it badly doesn't mean Trek's would be as bad, particularly with people like Drex and Okuda involved

I think I've said before that I've seen better Trek CGI on Youtube from fans doing it themselves than some...ahem, attempts at special effects in other franchises! (not naming any names cos I don't want to start a flame war, but still, the CGI bad model good argument is too simple, there are good and bad examples on both sides)

 

[TheSeeker]

I can understand not wanting to spend the money if you already have the entire run and have viewed it a lot.

It just happens to be the right time for me. I haven't ever re-watched TNG in its entirety from start to finish and I haven't watched a rerun in years. The last time I spent any money on TNG apart from the movies was in the 90s when Columbia House was selling the VHS collector's editions.

I've been wanting to re-watch TNG in recent years but the one thing that has stopped is just how crappy SD looks on an HD TV. This project is a dream come true for me and I'm very excited about it. Just ask my wife. I won't shut up about it!

Regarding CGI, I always liked this test render by EdenFX and would have liked to have seen them do the work on TOS remastered.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewdentremont/6467270035/

 

[NewHorizon]

is just from my point of view, TNG is a closed shop.
I've seen it all 1000000 times and I don't fancy shelling out to see it another time even if it does look a lot sprucier this time.
Q will still get petulant and throw the ship to meet the Borg, the "mysterious shadow" will still be Sela, Spock will still talk about cowboy diplomacy, etc.

Well, I haven't seen it 10,00000 times, nor did I buy the entire series. I have been waiting for a restoration just like this....original visuals enhanced, original production members overseeing the work. If I'm going to pay for the entire series on disk, then I'm only going to pay for the real series, with the original elements....not a re-imagining. The original effects are art and deserve to be restored along with the live footage. If I were part of the original team, and saw all of my model work being replaced with CGI even though the elements existed on film....I would be pretty hurt.

 

[TheSeeker]

^Especially since the model work was great. It was one of the things I always loved about TNG.

 

[NewHorizon]

Regarding CGI, I always liked this test render by EdenFX and would have liked to have seen them do the work on TOS remastered.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewdentremont/6467270035/

Yes, I was so disappointed when they didn't get the contract. Their work would have been outstanding, and no doubt more consistent.

 

[JarodRussell]

Well, I haven't seen it 10,00000 times, nor did I buy the entire series. I have been waiting for a restoration just like this....original visuals enhanced, original production members overseeing the work. If I'm going to pay for the entire series on disk, then I'm only going to pay for the real series, with the original elements....not a re-imagining. The original effects are art and deserve to be restored along with the live footage. If I were part of the original team, and saw all of my model work being replaced with CGI even though the elements existed on film....I would be pretty hurt.

I think that's some people's problem: they have seen TNG so many times that they simply can't get their head around the fact that other people would like to see the same shit all over again with the least amount of messing around as possible.

 

[Borjis]

[

BluRays support both 24fps (1080p/24) and 60fps (1080p).

I think you meant 59.94 fields per sec 1080i not 1080P 60fps. That's not in the BD specs....though many wish it were..

 

[NewHorizon]

I think that's some people's problem: they have seen TNG so many times that they simply can't get their head around the fact that other people would like to see the same shit all over again with the least amount of messing around as possible.

Which is the point of a restoration in my mind....to restore, not replace...unless absolutely necessary. Maybe the age of computer generated graphics has devalued the artistic value of special effects. For me, the days of physically crafted models and carefully composited special effects are akin to a fine art. I can't imagine someone replacing the backgrounds of classic paintings and justifying it with, "everyone has seen it a million times". lol

 

[ATimson]

Maybe the age of computer generated graphics has devalued the artistic value of special effects. For me, the days of physically crafted models and carefully composited special effects are akin to a fine art.

The days of carefully composited effects are, yes. Those days aren't the days of TNG.

 

[NewHorizon]

The days of carefully composited effects are, yes. Those days aren't the days of TNG.

I would politely disagree since it's all relative. The care afforded a weekly series is of course not going to equal that of a motion picture, but I think the people behind Next Generation certainly put as much care and love as time allowed them.

 

[ATimson]

I would politely disagree since it's all relative. The care afforded a weekly series is of course not going to equal that of a motion picture, but I think the people behind Next Generation certainly put as much care and love as time allowed them.

I wasn't trying to deny that, and I apologize for giving that impression. But there are shots where they rather obviously ran up against that brick wall of time (and money!), unfortunately.

 

[NewHorizon]

I would politely disagree since it's all relative. The care afforded a weekly series is of course not going to equal that of a motion picture, but I think the people behind Next Generation certainly put as much care and love as time allowed them.

I wasn't trying to deny that, and I apologize for giving that impression. But there are shots where they rather obviously ran up against that brick wall of time (and money!), unfortunately.

Indeed, will be nice to see these shots fixed up.

 

[22 Stars]

I wish the project had a daily or weekly blog. I know that Doug is great at including the fans in his projects, it would be really fun to see the process at work.

 

[Ian Keldon]

Regarding CGI, I always liked this test render by EdenFX and would have liked to have seen them do the work on TOS remastered.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewdentremont/6467270035/

Yes, I was so disappointed when they didn't get the contract. Their work would have been outstanding, and no doubt more consistent.

I get a "this page is private" message when I click that link.

 

[TheSeeker]

Try this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewdentremont/6467270035/in/photostream

 

[NewHorizon]

Try this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewdentremont/6467270035/in/photostream

What I love about that shot is that they took care in making the Enterprise look like a physical model. The lighting feels like that darker look often seen in old sci-fi films of the 50's and 60's. Essentially an enhanced and cleaned up version of the original shot. Truly a missed opportunity.

 

[Ian Keldon]

Try this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewdentremont/6467270035/in/photostream

Thanks!

Having watched that, I don't see what the fuss was about. TOS-R was able to add to the eps visually and generally did a good job for the budget they had.

I'd like to see that sort of creativity enhance TNG, and DS9 as well. There were too many shots that seemed stilted because they couldn't afford or couldn't do more complex camera/model moves. DS9 got tons better visually after they went CG.

 

[NewHorizon]

Having watched that, I don't see what the fuss was about. TOS-R was able to add to the eps visually and generally did a good job for the budget they had.

Think of it in terms of what Eden FX would have brought to the table vs. what CBS-D brought to the table.

CBS-Digital had not attempted something of this magnitude before...whereas EdenFX were well established and knew their craft quite well.

Eden FX had the experience under their belts to make new FX, yet also make it blend far more seamlessly than CBS-Digital was able to do. With a few notable exceptions (space seed especially) the work of CBS-D jumped out as being CGI and did not look like it was part of the same show.

The demo from Eden FX looks like what TOS could have been in the 60's with a motion picture budget.

I'd like to see that sort of creativity enhance TNG, and DS9 as well. There were too many shots that seemed stilted because they couldn't afford or couldn't do more complex camera/model moves. DS9 got tons better visually after they went CG.

It's a restoration though...so 'restoring' and enhancing the original ship footage is appropriate. There will be CGI used for phasers, and other effects...but I don't want to see the ship shots replaced with CGI...especially when what we've seen restored so far looks so good.

The model work was art, and I think we need to be more respectful and mindful of that when doing restorations of shows like this.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

I think that's some people's problem: they have seen TNG so many times that they simply can't get their head around the fact that other people would like to see the same shit all over again with the least amount of messing around as possible.

Which is the point of a restoration in my mind....to restore, not replace...unless absolutely necessary. Maybe the age of computer generated graphics has devalued the artistic value of special effects. For me, the days of physically crafted models and carefully composited special effects are akin to a fine art. I can't imagine someone replacing the backgrounds of classic paintings and justifying it with, "everyone has seen it a million times". lol

No, but people do go around painting over ugly or obscene graffitti to make it better, which you could argue is akin to the first couple of years of TNG special FX

Fine art, hardly

 

[JarodRussell]

I think that's some people's problem: they have seen TNG so many times that they simply can't get their head around the fact that other people would like to see the same shit all over again with the least amount of messing around as possible.

Which is the point of a restoration in my mind....to restore, not replace...unless absolutely necessary. Maybe the age of computer generated graphics has devalued the artistic value of special effects. For me, the days of physically crafted models and carefully composited special effects are akin to a fine art. I can't imagine someone replacing the backgrounds of classic paintings and justifying it with, "everyone has seen it a million times". lol

No, but people do go around painting over ugly or obscene graffitti to make it better, which you could argue is akin to the first couple of years of TNG special FX

Fine art, hardly

The TNG VFX were state of the art at the time. Unless you know of a sci fi TV show that had better ones.