Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard?

[sonak]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

I don't think Kirk was a cowboy, and I think he was as "book smart" as Picard. The "cowboy" thing was a TNG understanding of the TOS-era, an inaccurate one in my view. Look at Kirk in the movies-he's not a "shoot first, ask questions later" kind of guy.

 

[lisa]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

I would rather have dinner with Picard. I would rather live on his enterprise. So i would have to say Picard.

Tough choice though.....

Although Archer is my all time fav.

 

[horatio83]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

I don't think Kirk was a cowboy, and I think he was as "book smart" as Picard. The "cowboy" thing was a TNG understanding of the TOS-era, an inaccurate one in my view. Look at Kirk in the movies-he's not a "shoot first, ask questions later" kind of guy.

Indeed, in TWOK his main error that costs the life of Scotty's nephew is caused by lethargy, the very opposite of rashness.

 

[sonak]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

I don't think Kirk was a cowboy, and I think he was as "book smart" as Picard. The "cowboy" thing was a TNG understanding of the TOS-era, an inaccurate one in my view. Look at Kirk in the movies-he's not a "shoot first, ask questions later" kind of guy.

Indeed, in TWOK his main error that costs the life of Scotty's nephew is caused by lethargy, the very opposite of rashness.

I would say it was his "rustiness" away from the captain's chair(and poor writing), but yes the point is a valid one. If Kirk was a "cowboy," why didn't he handle that encounter more aggressively? And why did he surrender to the Klingons in TUC? His image in pop culture is somewhat at odds with the character.

 

[TerragonSix]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

I don't think Kirk was a cowboy, and I think he was as "book smart" as Picard. The "cowboy" thing was a TNG understanding of the TOS-era, an inaccurate one in my view. Look at Kirk in the movies-he's not a "shoot first, ask questions later" kind of guy.

The problem in the movies is that Kirk is a lot older - more experienced, more mature. Hell, TWOK, he was claiming he was getting too old for galloping around the stars.

TOS Kirk was younger, more brash. He had the ability to make smart command decisions, but this was often marred by his obsession with his ship, rash, quick, and sometimes even faulty judgements.

Not saying I don't like him; not at all.

 

[sonak]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

I don't think Kirk was a cowboy, and I think he was as "book smart" as Picard. The "cowboy" thing was a TNG understanding of the TOS-era, an inaccurate one in my view. Look at Kirk in the movies-he's not a "shoot first, ask questions later" kind of guy.

The problem in the movies is that Kirk is a lot older - more experienced, more mature. Hell, TWOK, he was claiming he was getting too old for galloping around the stars.

TOS Kirk was younger, more brash. He had the ability to make smart command decisions, but this was often marred by his obsession with his ship, rash, quick, and sometimes even faulty judgements.

Not saying I don't like him; not at all.

fair point, but even going just by TOS-era Kirk I don't see him as a "cowboy." He was a gambler with his strategy on occasion yes, but he wasn't portrayed as reckless or anything like that. He only comes off as a "cowboy" in comparison to Picard, because they're so different in character.

 

[indolover]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

Picard, as I prefer his character to Kirk.

Kirk was simply a slick oaf, we never knew much about him as a person until the films. Picard was better developed, and as others have said here, a more believable character. Things like ordering a favourite beverage, or feel uncomfortable around children, are things many can relate to (or observe in others at least).

 

[BillJ]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

Picard, as I prefer his character to Kirk.

Fair enough...

Kirk was simply a slick oaf...

Why does it always have to devolve into insult? Points can be made without insults being tossed.

...we never knew much about him as a person until the films.

I don't know? Tarses IV, serving on the Republic, the incident on the Farragut, his friendships with Spock and McCoy...

The gap of what we know of Kirk vs. Picard isn't as large as you seem to think it is, even though TNG ran twice as long.

Picard was better developed, and as others have said here, a more believable character. Things like ordering a favourite beverage, or feel uncomfortable around children, are things many can relate to (or observe in others at least).

See the simple fact of the matter is that Jim Kirk is the more FUN character. I watch TV to be entertained above all else and Jim Kirk simply entertains me more. It doesn't mean I don't have a soft spot for Picard, and if believability is the barometer they both fail miserably.

 

[RandyS]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

Well, how about that. I discovered time travel and landed in 1991.

Well, instead of wasting time here, I'm off to put money on every Football game and lottery ticket for the next twenty years.

Oh, and for the record: I like both captains.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

Well, how about that. I discovered time travel and landed in 1991.

Well, instead of wasting time here, I'm off to put money on every Football game and lottery ticket for the next twenty years.

Oh, and for the record: I like both captains.

I've been here ten plus years and pretty much every conversation that could be had, has been... ad nauseum.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

Malcolm Reynolds.

 

[horatio83]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

I don't think Kirk was a cowboy, and I think he was as "book smart" as Picard. The "cowboy" thing was a TNG understanding of the TOS-era, an inaccurate one in my view. Look at Kirk in the movies-he's not a "shoot first, ask questions later" kind of guy.

The problem in the movies is that Kirk is a lot older - more experienced, more mature. Hell, TWOK, he was claiming he was getting too old for galloping around the stars.

TOS Kirk was younger, more brash. He had the ability to make smart command decisions, but this was often marred by his obsession with his ship, rash, quick, and sometimes even faulty judgements.

Not saying I don't like him; not at all.

fair point, but even going just by TOS-era Kirk I don't see him as a "cowboy." He was a gambler with his strategy on occasion yes, but he wasn't portrayed as reckless or anything like that. He only comes off as a "cowboy" in comparison to Picard, because they're so different in character.

I totally agree. If Kirk took risks they have always been calculated risks. Beneath his playful style there is a deadly serious guy.
Take "Lessons" and compare it with Kirk's affection towards Rand, here Kirk is the disciplined guy and Picard is the 'cowboy' who fraternizes with a subordinate officer.

 

[RandyS]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

Well, how about that. I discovered time travel and landed in 1991.

Well, instead of wasting time here, I'm off to put money on every Football game and lottery ticket for the next twenty years.

Oh, and for the record: I like both captains.

I've been here ten plus years and pretty much every conversation that could be had, has been... ad nauseum.

Yep, that was more or less my point.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

Was it a point that needed to be made, though?

 

[lisa]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

Well, how about that. I discovered time travel and landed in 1991.

Well, instead of wasting time here, I'm off to put money on every Football game and lottery ticket for the next twenty years.

Oh, and for the record: I like both captains.

I've been here ten plus years and pretty much every conversation that could be had, has been... ad nauseum.

Yep, that was more or less my point.

Wah wah wahhhh.....

Why don't you add something new then?
I, on the other hand, am new to this site. How dare i enjoy this thread!

 

[sonak]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

I've been here ten plus years and pretty much every conversation that could be had, has been... ad nauseum.

Yep, that was more or less my point.

Wah wah wahhhh.....

Why don't you add something new then?
I, on the other hand, am new to this site. How dare i enjoy this thread!

yeah, this is a site that continually gets new members. If we stopped having threads that had issues that were discussed before, it wouldn't be very fair to them.

 

[RandyS]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

I've been here ten plus years and pretty much every conversation that could be had, has been... ad nauseum.

Yep, that was more or less my point.

Wah wah wahhhh.....

Why don't you add something new then?
I, on the other hand, am new to this site. How dare i enjoy this thread!

A little advice: the fine folks here (myself included) have a strange sense of humor. To quote Sulu: "If you're going to serve here, you're going to need to learn how to recognize a joke".

 

[indolover]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

Picard, as I prefer his character to Kirk.

Fair enough...

Kirk was simply a slick oaf...

Why does it always have to devolve into insult? Points can be made without insults being tossed.

...we never knew much about him as a person until the films.

I don't know? Tarses IV, serving on the Republic, the incident on the Farragut, his friendships with Spock and McCoy...

The gap of what we know of Kirk vs. Picard isn't as large as you seem to think it is, even though TNG ran twice as long.

Picard was better developed, and as others have said here, a more believable character. Things like ordering a favourite beverage, or feel uncomfortable around children, are things many can relate to (or observe in others at least).

See the simple fact of the matter is that Jim Kirk is the more FUN character. I watch TV to be entertained above all else and Jim Kirk simply entertains me more. It doesn't mean I don't have a soft spot for Picard, and if believability is the barometer they both fail miserably.

Fun is subjective. I am entertained by seeing Picard's character.

 

[Noname Given]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

Kirk is a Captain in every sense.

Picard is a diplomat who for some reason was told to go and try to command a ship.

 

[TerragonSix]

Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard

The problem in the movies is that Kirk is a lot older - more experienced, more mature. Hell, TWOK, he was claiming he was getting too old for galloping around the stars.

TOS Kirk was younger, more brash. He had the ability to make smart command decisions, but this was often marred by his obsession with his ship, rash, quick, and sometimes even faulty judgements.

Not saying I don't like him; not at all.

fair point, but even going just by TOS-era Kirk I don't see him as a "cowboy." He was a gambler with his strategy on occasion yes, but he wasn't portrayed as reckless or anything like that. He only comes off as a "cowboy" in comparison to Picard, because they're so different in character.

I totally agree. If Kirk took risks they have always been calculated risks. Beneath his playful style there is a deadly serious guy.
Take "Lessons" and compare it with Kirk's affection towards Rand, here Kirk is the disciplined guy and Picard is the 'cowboy' who fraternizes with a subordinate officer.

'Always been calculated risks?'

What about in episodes 'Obsession' and 'Requiem For Methasula'?

First one was an example of Kirk obsessed with a entity that killed many members of the crew, and he felt profound regret at not firing at it when he was younger.

Second one, was that he suspected a play actor into being a former administrator on planet that killed thousands of people. Instead of relegating the matter to Starfleet Command discreetly, he choose to handle the matter himself, privately, without any outside help.

How are either of these, examples of calculated risks? Or intelligent command decisions?

Look, I'm not taking ANYTHING away from Kirk, matter of fact, he's probably my favorite of the two. While he's not an hyper aggressive, seat of the pants style Captain, he did make decisions with gut and panache. So did Picard, but not nearly on the same level as Kirk.

If I were to compare the two as board games, Picard would be Chess, and Kirk would be something like Dungeons & Dragons. Both are intellectually stimulating, but in terms of style, Chess is a more classical style, whereas D&D is more of a contemporary style.