Who do you believe is the better Captain?
Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard?
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Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
It's pretty much a tossup in my book. Kirk was a charismatic butt kicker who could play diplomat when required (Devil in the Dark) while Picard was a thoughtful diplomat who could kick butt when required (Yesterday's Enterprise). I think they were both ideal captains for their respective eras. Kirk, the interstellar cowboy during the transition between the "wild west" formative years of the Federation and it's more stable TNG period. Picard was the thoughtul intellectual for the more settled (until the Dominion War) period.
It's pretty much a tossup in my book. Kirk was a charismatic butt kicker who could play diplomat when required (Devil in the Dark) while Picard was a thoughtful diplomat who could kick butt when required (Yesterday's Enterprise). I think they were both ideal captains for their respective eras. Kirk, the interstellar cowboy during the transition between the "wild west" formative years of the Federation and it's more stable TNG period. Picard was the thoughtul intellectual for the more settled (until the Dominion War) period.
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
I pose an strange argument here. Where I love Kirk's lack of military displin and his gaw to disobey starfleet orders and his all around cocky attitude, he does have flaws his strange love for hussies for example and his idiocy at times. But I would NEVER follow him into battle (any way I'd probably be a "Red Shirt"). But Picard's strict attitude is not nearly as fun to watch But I would follow him into battle. That is his only point So My choice is Captain Kirk.
I pose an strange argument here. Where I love Kirk's lack of military displin and his gaw to disobey starfleet orders and his all around cocky attitude, he does have flaws his strange love for hussies for example and his idiocy at times. But I would NEVER follow him into battle (any way I'd probably be a "Red Shirt"). But Picard's strict attitude is not nearly as fun to watch But I would follow him into battle. That is his only point So My choice is Captain Kirk.
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
Suit yourself.
Your Captain called, he's leading you into battle.
Suit yourself.
Your Captain called, he's leading you into battle.
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
It all does depend on taste. I ask because I saw a shirt that has 10 Reasons Why Kirk Is Better Than Picard and the reasons were not that good. I wanted more depth in people's reasons.
It all does depend on taste. I ask because I saw a shirt that has 10 Reasons Why Kirk Is Better Than Picard and the reasons were not that good. I wanted more depth in people's reasons.
YARN
Fleet Captain
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
Bones, your choice is fine, but the reasoning, is dubious...
You do indeed.
Kirk is all about military discipline.
See The Corbomite Maneuver, for example, where McCoy actually tells him to lighten up - to back off of his rigorous training of the crew. McCoy was always having to tell Kirk to take time off, to take shore leave, to lighten up on himself.
Anytime someone wasn't doing their job in TOS, ANYTIME ANYONE was slippin, Kirk would get in their face and tell them to get with it or else.
Kirk was modeled on Horatio Hornblower, a figure filled with self doubt and obsessed with discipline (self-discipline and proper crew discipline) as means to compensate for it.
About the only time we see Kirk not anal retentive about military discipline is in TWoK when he takes the Enterprise for a joy ride with a training crew.
Kirk very rarely disobeyed orders. When Starfleet gives him dippy orders which will likely wreck his ship, his career, and leave his crew dead or enslaved (Enterprise Incident), he follows orders.
He strains against orders to save Spock's life (Amok Time and Search for Spock) and that's about it.
And how many times has Picard disobeyed orders? At least, as often in both the show and the films.
The Kirk MacDaddy myth has been busted. (Search threads on this very site).
No more so than some of the inexplicable actions of other Trek captains.
Bones, your choice is fine, but the reasoning, is dubious...
You do indeed.
Kirk is all about military discipline.
See The Corbomite Maneuver, for example, where McCoy actually tells him to lighten up - to back off of his rigorous training of the crew. McCoy was always having to tell Kirk to take time off, to take shore leave, to lighten up on himself.
Anytime someone wasn't doing their job in TOS, ANYTIME ANYONE was slippin, Kirk would get in their face and tell them to get with it or else.
Kirk was modeled on Horatio Hornblower, a figure filled with self doubt and obsessed with discipline (self-discipline and proper crew discipline) as means to compensate for it.
About the only time we see Kirk not anal retentive about military discipline is in TWoK when he takes the Enterprise for a joy ride with a training crew.
Kirk very rarely disobeyed orders. When Starfleet gives him dippy orders which will likely wreck his ship, his career, and leave his crew dead or enslaved (Enterprise Incident), he follows orders.
He strains against orders to save Spock's life (Amok Time and Search for Spock) and that's about it.
And how many times has Picard disobeyed orders? At least, as often in both the show and the films.
The Kirk MacDaddy myth has been busted. (Search threads on this very site).
No more so than some of the inexplicable actions of other Trek captains.
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
Smank you for that very thorough explination. It is a better judgement then people's basis on 'who has the better hair'. I love thoroughness and that was fairly thorough. Who else poses a fruitful point of view?
Smank you for that very thorough explination. It is a better judgement then people's basis on 'who has the better hair'. I love thoroughness and that was fairly thorough. Who else poses a fruitful point of view?
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
(raises hand)
The watermelon head gets my vote (or cantaloupe, if you prefer).
(raises hand)
The watermelon head gets my vote (or cantaloupe, if you prefer).
antiquityscion
Commander
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
I have always though it was odd comparing the two. Sure Picard was more nuanced and cautious, but we see Picard as an older captain, well into his 60s. In TOS Kirk was in his early 30s, and was more of a risk taker and a bolder captain. These are two very different stages in life.
I think Picard as captain of the Stargazer was much more Kirk-like. Considering TNG was actually derived from Phase II, Picard really represents the "Older Kirk," or which is to say how Kirk might have been had there been a Phase II series. So really, Picard during TNG is captaining the Enterprise as how an older Kirk in his 50s-60s might have during Phase II.
But if you want to discount that, and just compare the two captains straight up, here is how I would compare them:
Diplomatically:
I would say Picard is the better diplomat, and is more logical.
Picard wins
Experience as captain:
Picard had a longer time as captain: some 25 years or so with the Stargazer, and as of Nemesis, some 15 years for both Enterprises.
Picard wins
Military tactics while captaining the ship:
I think an argument can be made Kirk innovated a lot of tactics that later captains learned in the academy: Kobiyashi Maru training program, Corbomte maneuver, various attack patterns named after Kirk (Kirk pattern Delta and what not). But the case could also be made for Picard as well, as in the Picard Maneuver at the Battle of Maxia. Picard would know Kirk's possible moves, because he studied them however. So kirk would have to devise new tactics. I think both are evenly matched, when it comes to thinking on their feet, so this would be a toss up.
Tie
Ability to inspire the crew:
Both command respect, and both commanded the flag ship of their eras, but I think in the Trek universe, Kirk has a more legendary status, so probably the edge goes to Kirk.
Kirk Wins
Ability to intimidate the enemy\adversary:
Again, Kirk has a more legendary status than Picard, and Kirk was considered both a scourge to the Klingons, and the ultimate warrior to beat. Picard had similar a reputation with the Romulans, but considering the Warbirds were twice the size of the Enterprise D with potentially more firepower and a cloak, I don't know that they were as intimidated by\wary of Picard, as the Klingons were of Kirk.
Kirk Wins.
Physically
No contest, Kirk was the superior combatant. Generations proves this: Picard needed his help.
Kirk wins
Essentially, you have one tie, and Kirk wins 3 to 2.
I have always though it was odd comparing the two. Sure Picard was more nuanced and cautious, but we see Picard as an older captain, well into his 60s. In TOS Kirk was in his early 30s, and was more of a risk taker and a bolder captain. These are two very different stages in life.
I think Picard as captain of the Stargazer was much more Kirk-like. Considering TNG was actually derived from Phase II, Picard really represents the "Older Kirk," or which is to say how Kirk might have been had there been a Phase II series. So really, Picard during TNG is captaining the Enterprise as how an older Kirk in his 50s-60s might have during Phase II.
But if you want to discount that, and just compare the two captains straight up, here is how I would compare them:
Diplomatically:
I would say Picard is the better diplomat, and is more logical.
Picard wins
Experience as captain:
Picard had a longer time as captain: some 25 years or so with the Stargazer, and as of Nemesis, some 15 years for both Enterprises.
Picard wins
Military tactics while captaining the ship:
I think an argument can be made Kirk innovated a lot of tactics that later captains learned in the academy: Kobiyashi Maru training program, Corbomte maneuver, various attack patterns named after Kirk (Kirk pattern Delta and what not). But the case could also be made for Picard as well, as in the Picard Maneuver at the Battle of Maxia. Picard would know Kirk's possible moves, because he studied them however. So kirk would have to devise new tactics. I think both are evenly matched, when it comes to thinking on their feet, so this would be a toss up.
Tie
Ability to inspire the crew:
Both command respect, and both commanded the flag ship of their eras, but I think in the Trek universe, Kirk has a more legendary status, so probably the edge goes to Kirk.
Kirk Wins
Ability to intimidate the enemy\adversary:
Again, Kirk has a more legendary status than Picard, and Kirk was considered both a scourge to the Klingons, and the ultimate warrior to beat. Picard had similar a reputation with the Romulans, but considering the Warbirds were twice the size of the Enterprise D with potentially more firepower and a cloak, I don't know that they were as intimidated by\wary of Picard, as the Klingons were of Kirk.
Kirk Wins.
Physically
No contest, Kirk was the superior combatant. Generations proves this: Picard needed his help.
Kirk wins
Essentially, you have one tie, and Kirk wins 3 to 2.
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
Okay we have one vote for the watermelon head.
Okay we have one vote for the watermelon head.
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
It's close for me, but I would have to say Kirk, if nothing else, as someone has mentioned, he is more apt to go against orders and regulations if the situation calls for it. Sometimes in life, you need to do what you need to do. Let the regulations be damned!
It's close for me, but I would have to say Kirk, if nothing else, as someone has mentioned, he is more apt to go against orders and regulations if the situation calls for it. Sometimes in life, you need to do what you need to do. Let the regulations be damned!
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
I find that it's the reverse. Picard is a more well-rounded, more believable character, but Kirk is the more heroic and effective captain.
I find that it's the reverse. Picard is a more well-rounded, more believable character, but Kirk is the more heroic and effective captain.
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
Cowboy vs. The Intellect
Tough to call.
You have to understand, if we are going by 'The Canon', these two captains were in two very different parts of the Federations time. Kirk was Captain of the Enterprise when space was essentially the Wild West, where Picard, space is a bit tamer, and not at war with the Klingons.
Both had iron wills. Both had intellect, (though Picard was more classically intellectual, whereas Kirk was an intellect of improvisation.
If I needed a brash Captain that could think on his feet and fight, I would go with Kirk.
If I needed a cool, level headed Captain that made excellent, measured, practical and elegant solutions, it would be Picard.
Cowboy vs. The Intellect
Tough to call.
You have to understand, if we are going by 'The Canon', these two captains were in two very different parts of the Federations time. Kirk was Captain of the Enterprise when space was essentially the Wild West, where Picard, space is a bit tamer, and not at war with the Klingons.
Both had iron wills. Both had intellect, (though Picard was more classically intellectual, whereas Kirk was an intellect of improvisation.
If I needed a brash Captain that could think on his feet and fight, I would go with Kirk.
If I needed a cool, level headed Captain that made excellent, measured, practical and elegant solutions, it would be Picard.
Re: Question Who In Your Opinion Is The Better Captain: Kirk or Picard
Apples & Oranges
Both equally suited for the demands of captaincy, but comparing them is really only a job for other commanders. To most everyone else, it's like asking who the better composer was, Beethoven or Mozart. They didn't even exist in the same era
Who would I have rather served under? Probably Picard. His demeanor created an environment where the order in place was seemingly easier to understand for the entire crew, & not just the core senior officers
I'm not saying Kirk's crew wasn't disciplined, quite the contrary. They both ran orderly & disciplined crews, but Picard's seemed like it was more fluid & routine for the people who served in it. However, that's not something that can speak to who is a better captain, just who is a more desirable captain to serve under
Apples & Oranges
Both equally suited for the demands of captaincy, but comparing them is really only a job for other commanders. To most everyone else, it's like asking who the better composer was, Beethoven or Mozart. They didn't even exist in the same era
Who would I have rather served under? Probably Picard. His demeanor created an environment where the order in place was seemingly easier to understand for the entire crew, & not just the core senior officers
I'm not saying Kirk's crew wasn't disciplined, quite the contrary. They both ran orderly & disciplined crews, but Picard's seemed like it was more fluid & routine for the people who served in it. However, that's not something that can speak to who is a better captain, just who is a more desirable captain to serve under
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