The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

[DarKush]

Just caught the mid-season finale. Wow, it delivered a gut punch ending. I was wondering why they were taking so long with the Sophia subplot, but the way it came together made it worth it.

I also like how they are showing Shane slowly unravel. I thought he was a goner by the end of the first season, but they are making good use of him here, contrasting his Darwinian philosophy against the more moderate Rick and then totally opposite direction Herschel. Though if I were him I would stop pining over Lori, Andrea is way hotter.

I do think Rick's group was totally out of bounds though in not respecting Herschel's rules. The walkers were pretty secure, and even if they didn't like it, hey, they didn't have to stay there. I think they had a point, but the way they went about it was wrong.

Other observations:

-I also didn't get why Dale chose to hide the guns, taking that self-defense choice away from everyone, not just Shane. He's a bit too controlling. And he is a bit of a busybody.

-At least they let T-Dog have a gun and he actually connected on his shots. He is generally portrayed as a bumbler, if he's shown doing anything at all. I hope T-Dog gets more development in the second half of the season. He's certainly no Tyrese (from the comics). And step one, stop calling him "T-Dog".

-Glad Maggie finally checked Herschel on calling Glenn that "Asian boy" all the time. And I like how she checked him on a being a hypocrite.

 

[Derishton]

I agree that the ending was brilliant, in spite of the spoilers ... but my reason for thinking it was effective seems to be unique to me.

Shane isn't the Darwinian one, at least not in a conscious way. He's all for the hard tough-guy decision if it means killing anonymous walkers; he's as paralyzed as everyone else when it's Sophia, and it means re-killing her in front of her mother. In that sense, Herschel has the moral victory: his theory that there's a cure seems unlikely, but his point that walkers are our mothers, spouses, children, etc.? He's spot-on about that, and the hesitation of every one with a gun when Sophia lurches out the door testifies that Herschel is right, that there is a moral quandary here.

And then there's Rick, who answers Lori's faith that he is the kind of man to lead them, that Dale is wrong that this world is meant for someone like Shane. This world needs people like Rick, who can reinterpret the firing of a bullet as an act of compassion and not just fear or machismo. It also, paradoxically, points to the major theme of the last few volumes of the graphic series: can Rick make these decisions and still keep his soul?

 

[PKerr]

One of the things I don't understand is not one single person in the group even remotely mentions to Herschel the fact that they were at the CDC and they pretty much knew what the "disease" is/does.

They are dead, we saw what scientifically happens when you die, Blah, blah, blah.

That said I hope the show picks up it's pace when it returns.

I really hope they don't kill Shane off as that division between he and Rick can really add some decent drama to the show, maybe even have the group choosing sides and such.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

The ending made me cry. Even with being spoiled going into it, maybe its because I have two very young sons now. The killing of the other walkers in the barn was vindictive, the killing of Sophia was a relief. Its funny who the same thing can truly be two different things.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

So are we to assume that Sophia got bitten somewhere near the creek bed? Was it only a day or two before Otis shot Carl? I cannot recall.

However, it does seem to me that the virus must have had a really short period of incubation in Sophia. They could not have put her in the barn before transition. She would have been Zombie fodder.

I did not notice any major wounds when she staggered out the the barn.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

There was a nasty bite on her left shoulder.

So are we to assume that Sophia got bitten somewhere near the creek bed? Was it only a day or two before Otis shot Carl? I cannot recall.

However, it does seem to me that the virus must have had a really short period of incubation in Sophia. They could not have put her in the barn before transition. She would have been Zombie fodder.

I did not notice any major wounds when she staggered out the the barn.

 

[Silvercrest]

One of the things I don't understand is not one single person in the group even remotely mentions to Herschel the fact that they were at the CDC and they pretty much knew what the "disease" is/does.

Herschel apparently believes that it's possible to cure people who are suffering mortal wounds, fatal blood loss, and their organs hanging out. And he believes all this despite being a doctor. (Yes, I know what kind.) His medical knowledge should inform him what is and isn't possible.

It doesn't matter what you tell him. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

 

[chardman]

This show keeps amazing me. A few year's back, had you told me that a TV show about the zombie apocalypse would be able to move me to tears... I would have laughed in your face. And yet, this show has indeed moved me to tears, and on several occasions. But that last scene in front of the barn, though not wholly unexpected, was utterly devastating. Just... wow.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

One observation about Dale. I don't know if this done on purpose or just my reading into it. Most characters on a show with the information that Dale has, would blurt it out. In trying to protect Andrea, try to show what kind of man Shane is. Then of course Shane would deny it and Dale would loose his credibility, until the time he is proven correct but by that time the Dale type character is usually dead.

It started with his ruse about the water hose. Then continued with him talking to Lori then Herschel about the walkers in the barn. It looks like Dale is trying to be smarter and learning from the game he is playing.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Oh, man, that sucked. I wish they didn't do that. All I can think of is that poor little girl running away down the hill with her doll in her hand.

But, of course, it was another fantastic episode. Shane is now the chief engineer on the Crazy Train, Herschel has had to face the truth about zombies, Rick's best efforts at diplomacy were swept away, Glenn won over Maggie, and Daryl and Dale continue to be cool. I wonder what will become of Carol now.

Oh, man, I dread watching this now.

And that's a good thing. Imagine having a zombie show you don't dread watching. What's the point of it being a zombie show, then?

Absolutely. For the last however-many years, the token shocking death of a major character in a TV show hasn't been worth much more than a rolleyes, but this one was really a wrencher. It really helps when you have people who know how to write.

 

[the G-man]

One of the things I don't understand is not one single person in the group even remotely mentions to Herschel the fact that they were at the CDC and they pretty much knew what the "disease" is/does.

Herschel apparently believes that it's possible to cure people who are suffering mortal wounds, fatal blood loss, and their organs hanging out. And he believes all this despite being a doctor. (Yes, I know what kind.) His medical knowledge should inform him what is and isn't possible.

It doesn't matter what you tell him. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

Yeah, this is about (for lack of better term) a good man suffering from something like PTSD.

 

[Sindatur]

One of the things I don't understand is not one single person in the group even remotely mentions to Herschel the fact that they were at the CDC and they pretty much knew what the "disease" is/does.

Herschel apparently believes that it's possible to cure people who are suffering mortal wounds, fatal blood loss, and their organs hanging out. And he believes all this despite being a doctor. (Yes, I know what kind.) His medical knowledge should inform him what is and isn't possible.

It doesn't matter what you tell him. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

I recall Rick looking like he was about to tell him about the CDC and try to reason with him, but, got the impression he didn't bother, figuring it wouldn't do any good, Herschel wouldn't hear him.

It's pretty much an unwritten taboo, not to kill children on TV Shows (certainly not by showing them being shot in the head), so, that in itself is a pretty bold move.

 

[Borgminister]

Will somebody think of the (zombie) children!?

 

[mr.peany]

I wonder how they will explain not telling the group about Sophia being in the barn. Someone other than Otis had to know. For one, the lady feeding the chickens to the horde. I do hope that this is addressed properly.

 

[O'Dib]

Given that a comic book characters don't have to age, but actors do, I wonder how the producers plan to deal with Carl. If the show is supposed to have taken place over the space of a few weeks (to date) since Rick woke up, but it takes "x" years to film all the episodes, they're either going to have to recast him or write him off.

That was part of why Walt was written off "Lost" as I recall.

Good point. I suspect we'll be left with just the baby in the group at some point. They're pretty easy to recast constantly. Or they'll dig in somewhere like the Hershel farm and we'll get a time jump to explain Carl.

 

[the G-man]

Oh, man, that sucked. I wish they didn't do that. All I can think of is that poor little girl running away down the hill with her doll in her hand...this one was really a wrencher.

It didn't really affect me that way.

It was good from a dramatic sense because it shows that the program isn't going to shy away from killing regular characters, including kids. And the reveal was well done, even with the AICN spoilers.

However, Sophia's character wasn't that developed for me to find it "wrenching." Losing someone like Glenn or Daryl (who has probably the most interesting arc of the show thus far, going from "redneck jerk" to "the guy even the black character can count on") would bother me a lot more because the writers have made them worth caring about.

 

[Caliburn24]

Just watched the mid-season finale. It wasn't perfect, but the show is moving again instead of just spinning its wheels. I think in hindsight the first half of season two wasn't bad, but it was rather bloated and padded. It could easily have been a tight fast moving three episodes or so, and covered every single plot point.

And without delving into spoilers(which I don't keep up on) I have the distinct impression that the back half of the season is going to be a relative bloodbath(haven't read the comics, no idea about any of that stuff). AMC wants to cut costs and that means in part a smaller cast. And with all the foreshadowing I think we'll probably see at least three of the cast killed by the end of season two. I'm thinking Carol, Dale, maybe Shane, maybe Daryl, almost certainly Hershel, maybe T-Dawg or whatever the black guy is named.

 

[WeAreTheBorg]

I don't know how any of you can live with yourself reading spoilers about an episode as shocking as that one. Man what an ending! It was so perfect yet so wrong and horrible.

 

[WeAreTheBorg]

One of the things I don't understand is not one single person in the group even remotely mentions to Herschel the fact that they were at the CDC and they pretty much knew what the "disease" is/does.

Herschel apparently believes that it's possible to cure people who are suffering mortal wounds, fatal blood loss, and their organs hanging out. And he believes all this despite being a doctor. (Yes, I know what kind.) His medical knowledge should inform him what is and isn't possible.

It doesn't matter what you tell him. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

In his defense I don't think he ever saw any with organs hanging out etc. Like Rick keeps saying, he's sheltered and hasn't seen how things really are. You could see that with the daughter when Glenn chopped his head mostly off and it kept standing the penny dropped for her. And when Shane shot the walker he was wrangling like 8 times in a chest and she kept going Hershel looked baffled too. I think that was his moment of realization.

 

[sidious618]

This was a damn good episode, the best one since the premiere this season. I was really letdown by most of the episodes in between but this one was a corker. The ending was heartbreaking, watching Hershel see his family get slaughtered and then seeing Sophia come out. Damn. It really felt like a massacre as they shot the zombies.

That said, this show needs to get rolling again because this farm arc felt like a massive stall and as good as this episode was it doesn't make up for everything that came before.

Someone needs to kill Shane. He's as dangerous as the zombies.