The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[Admiral Bear]

I can't imagine that the european releases of TNG will exceed 50 euro's/pounds per season. Paramount keeps the prices of their BD releases high, but any higher than that would be rediculous.

I'll bet about £80 per season. You have to remember that when the 1-10 movie boxset on Blu-ray was initially released, it retailed at £120 in the UK. OK, it's come down since then. . I got it for £75 last year.. .Now that set was 12 discs with minimal work needed to produce the content of the discs.

TNG will presumably be 7 discs per season, but with the huge costs of HD production needing to be recouped. Paramount knows that Trek fans have been chomping at the bit for HD TNG. Many of those fans will more than likely pay pretty much anything for these sets, and I suspect they're going to have to. As I paid full whack for all the DVD sets on first release, I think I'll be obtaining these if and when the HD rips appear on torrents.

 

[mswood]

With the comparison between Voyager and DS9, while DS9 had the wormhole and various Odo morphs, for the most part it didn't start using CGI effects large scale until season 6. Voyager also used CGI in some shots (moving warp engines for example) that were always CGI, and as a series went fully CGI by early third season. So there are a host more CGI effects to deal with on Voyager then with DS9, seasons more.

 

[SoM]

Waaayyy too early to be thinking about DS9-R or VOY-R. If they release two sets a year (including the "Next Level" sampler), it'll be late 2015 before they're done with TNG-R. At that, it'd be 2014 before they were thinking about the following series, and if there was even going to be one!

 

[ATimson]

With the comparison between Voyager and DS9, while DS9 had the wormhole and various Odo morphs, for the most part it didn't start using CGI effects large scale until season 6. Voyager also used CGI in some shots (moving warp engines for example) that were always CGI, and as a series went fully CGI by early third season. So there are a host more CGI effects to deal with on Voyager then with DS9, seasons more.

Voyager may have had more CGI effects, but they were generally much simpler than the DS9 ones (simpler enough where recreating them would be easier than redoing some of the more involved comps of existing motion-control work from DS9!)

 

[mswood]

But I remain optimistic. This will happen and Voyager too (which by the way never had better ratings than DS9 AFAIK).

Well yes, and no. Compare first episode, to first episode, clearly Voyager didn't far better then DS9 rating wise. But it if you are looking at airdate. Voyager for example aired when DS9 was airing you find many episodes that scored higher ratings.

When comparing shows, one really needs to understand that each year networks (and shows) tend to lose viewers, its been rather consistent loss of people who watch live television over the last thirty years. It's grown from being a small year to year lose, to recently (the last five or so years) a huge lose of viewers year to year.

Also ratings for DS9 and those with VOyager were compiled differently. So its really difficult to do a weekly comparison.

Using Network numbers, Voyager only includes those who watched on the day it aired on UPN (but it was also syndicated to to most of the rest of the nation that didn't have UPN), those numbers (for about 12-15% of the nation weren't large enough to get a separate listing on Nielsen's syndicated listing (where we did get ratings for shows like WHeel of Fortune, Jeopardy, DS9, Hercules, and Xena as examples).

 

[mswood]

While DS9 might have had a larger scope in its CGI, that doesn't mean they were more difficult effects. We know for example that Voyager had the more detailed CGI models on it, compared to what DS9 used. While I love DS9 and just kind of like Voyager, I think the effects work (CGI versus CGI) was stronger on Voyager. Voyager used CGI for everything. DS9 didn't. They only went to CGI when they absolutely had to.

 

[Sho]

Waaayyy too early to be thinking about DS9-R or VOY-R. If they release two sets a year (including the "Next Level" sampler), it'll be late 2015 before they're done with TNG-R. At that, it'd be 2014 before they were thinking about the following series, and if there was even going to be one!

... that's actually the sort of time frame we've been talking about, so you're not exactly educating us there .

 

[Hober Mallow]

That was a practical effect. They will have to redo the phaser shots, but not the actual head explosion I am guessing.

Ah, you're right. They'll have to redo the phasers as well as the transition between Remmick's real head and the dummy blow-up head.

 

[Dac]

While DS9 might have had a larger scope in its CGI, that doesn't mean they were more difficult effects. We know for example that Voyager had the more detailed CGI models on it, compared to what DS9 used. While I love DS9 and just kind of like Voyager, I think the effects work (CGI versus CGI) was stronger on Voyager. Voyager used CGI for everything. DS9 didn't. They only went to CGI when they absolutely had to.

No they didn't. Voyager was primarily model work for the first 3 seasons. It was only season 4 onwards did they make the jump to extensive CG. DS9 on the other hand had various CG elements (parts of the Wormhole, Odo puddle FX, Orbs) from Day 1 that were used fairly routinely.

That's not to say DS9 would be harder per se, The Odo FX and Orbs are a piece of piss nowdays. I think the hardest thing to do would be to replicate the look and feel of the wormhole, as that was such a unique effect which I believe blended optical and CG elements. At least initially, the battle from Sacrifice of Angels would take extensive work to replicate the scope of it, but the flipside of that is that you can make it look better with a more accurate Defiant mesh.

 

[mswood]

While DS9 might have had a larger scope in its CGI, that doesn't mean they were more difficult effects. We know for example that Voyager had the more detailed CGI models on it, compared to what DS9 used. While I love DS9 and just kind of like Voyager, I think the effects work (CGI versus CGI) was stronger on Voyager. Voyager used CGI for everything. DS9 didn't. They only went to CGI when they absolutely had to.

No they didn't. Voyager was primarily model work for the first 3 seasons. It was only season 4 onwards did they make the jump to extensive CG. DS9 on the other hand had various CG elements (parts of the Wormhole, Odo puddle FX, Orbs) from Day 1 that were used fairly routinely.

That's not to say DS9 would be harder per se, The Odo FX and Orbs are a piece of piss nowdays. I think the hardest thing to do would be to replicate the look and feel of the wormhole, as that was such a unique effect which I believe blended optical and CG elements. At least initially, the battle from Sacrifice of Angels would take extensive work to replicate the scope of it, but the flipside of that is that you can make it look better with a more accurate Defiant mesh.

Dac I have no idea what your are disagreeing with.

I had already stated that Voyager progressed to CGI in season three (pretty much from Unity onward was CGI), though they did use several CGI shots before that switch over.

I also stated that Voyager from the first episode (like DS9 with Odo and the wormhole) had occasional CGI effects, this typically being the Warp shots.

Perhaps what you were reading is my "VOY used CGI for pretty much everything" (this meaning when they switched over from models, not when the show started).

What I meant from this is that you see a wide variety of types of shots that Voyager used CGI for. From cityscapes, space shots, physical locations, to character work. DS9 really didn't do that with CGI. It mainly focused on ship shots.

 

[JJohnson]

While DS9 might have had a larger scope in its CGI, that doesn't mean they were more difficult effects. We know for example that Voyager had the more detailed CGI models on it, compared to what DS9 used. While I love DS9 and just kind of like Voyager, I think the effects work (CGI versus CGI) was stronger on Voyager. Voyager used CGI for everything. DS9 didn't. They only went to CGI when they absolutely had to.

No they didn't. Voyager was primarily model work for the first 3 seasons. It was only season 4 onwards did they make the jump to extensive CG. DS9 on the other hand had various CG elements (parts of the Wormhole, Odo puddle FX, Orbs) from Day 1 that were used fairly routinely.

That's not to say DS9 would be harder per se, The Odo FX and Orbs are a piece of piss nowdays. I think the hardest thing to do would be to replicate the look and feel of the wormhole, as that was such a unique effect which I believe blended optical and CG elements. At least initially, the battle from Sacrifice of Angels would take extensive work to replicate the scope of it, but the flipside of that is that you can make it look better with a more accurate Defiant mesh.

As for DS9, I would love to see what an HD version of Odo and the Orbs and the wormhole would look like with the higher resolution. As for TNG, I would love to see the Time Squared FX as soon as possible, along with All Good Things...

 

[TheSeeker]

At this point the only thing that will get me to rewatch DS9 and Voyager will be if the get HD releases like we're getting with TNG. The SD versions just don't look good on HDTVs.

 

[Squiggy]

Meh. I've been watching Voyager on Netflix the past few months. They don't look all that bad.

I mean, it's not HD by any stretch of the imagination, but it's more watchable than TNG.

 

[Tomalak]

Yeah, I was surprised how decent DS9 actually looked upscaled on a nice big HDTV. Obviously it doesn't look natively HD, but it holds up pretty well. It's very watchable.

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, DS9 looks decent enough on my HDTV. I tried watching a few episodes of TNG and it was just terrible.

 

[Mark 2000]

To be completely honest, TNG and TOS were sensational successes. DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise were not. I have a hard time believing those last three shows will be getting the restoration treatment anytime soon. Most likely they will at some point just because everything will need to be HD. But I can't see these expensive projects going forward until its absolutely necessary. Possibly not in the era of Blu-Ray.

 

[ATimson]

To be completely honest, TNG and TOS were sensational successes. DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise were not. I have a hard time believing those last three shows will be getting the restoration treatment anytime soon. Most likely they will at some point just because everything will need to be HD. But I can't see these expensive projects going forward until its absolutely necessary. Possibly not in the era of Blu-Ray.

Enterprise doesn't need a restoration, as has been reiterated repeatedly in this thread - it's already HD.

 

[Tomalak]

I don't understand what first-run ratings have to do with potential blu-ray sales.

Surely the finances for TOS-R and TNG-R were based on VHS/DVD sales and syndication deals? If it stacks up to be able to offer a full catalogue of Star Trek series in high definition, as well as give the loyal Trek consumer some new product to buy, it's inevitable DS9 and Voyager will get the HD remaster treatment too.

But let's get TNG done first before worrying about them.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, I was surprised how decent DS9 actually looked upscaled on a nice big HDTV. Obviously it doesn't look natively HD, but it holds up pretty well. It's very watchable.

I'm sure you know that "upscaling" a video pretty much means nothing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

To be completely honest, TNG and TOS were sensational successes. DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise were not. I have a hard time believing those last three shows will be getting the restoration treatment anytime soon. Most likely they will at some point just because everything will need to be HD. But I can't see these expensive projects going forward until its absolutely necessary. Possibly not in the era of Blu-Ray.

Enterprise doesn't need a restoration, as has been reiterated repeatedly in this thread - it's already HD.

And can already be purchased in HD as well. Not on Blu-Ray, but close enough (iTunes Store).