Any Astronomers in the forum?

[trampledamage]

Hope no-one minds me sticking this in Sci-Tech - if you want to shunt it to Misc go ahead

little miss trampledamage (turning 7 in December) wants a telescope for Christmas. She wants to look at the stars and planets (and the space station!).

Can anyone here help me with some recommendations? I saw this telescope in a catalogue, but I don't know what the technical specifications mean so I've no way of judging if it's any good.

I don't want to buy her something that's just a toy. It needs to work properly but it also needs to be simple enough that she can use it herself (she's good with tech, so a certain level of complexity is okay).

Something with a price tag of $100 CAD would be nice too :thumbs

Any suggestions?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I'm afraid that example is a fairly cheap toy. Mostly, you get what you pay for except at the lower end where $100 buys you some rubbish optics and poor build quality. If you notice, even the tripod is only a tabletop version, which means you need to stand it on a firm surface to be able to use it. The "all-glass optics" description is also a bit of a hoot. You'd be able to see the craters on the Moon and the moons of Jupiter, but you'd struggle to make out the rings of Saturn with any clarity. The inclusion of a Barlow lens to increase magnification also indicates that this piece of kit isn't worth buying - all that would do is make an already blurry image, larger, dimmer and even more blurry.

Here are some links that offer advice for those wanting to get into Astronomy:

http://www.astrocentral.co.uk/telescope.html

http://www.spacecentre.co.uk/spacenow/newsitem.aspx/2/995/Launch_Into_Space

http://telescopebuying.com/

http://www.hantsastro.org.uk/resources/buytelescope.php

http://www.my-spot.com/whatkind.htm

For $100, you might be better off with binoculars and joining a local Astronomy club who might be able to offer access to good amateur equipment.

 

[trampledamage]

Thanks for the warning, and the links Asbo - guess I have some research ahead of me!

 

[Kelso]

My daughter has an Orion Funscope. We love it. Great beginner scope for the money.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Yup, get some good binoculars, they are easy to carry with you everywhere so you can watch the stars even when you didn't intend to, reveal a lot of things that you can't see with the naked eye, such as the moons of Jupiter, and can be useful when you're doing something else, e.g. to spot something in the distance. Just don't use them on handsome male neighbours...

Be aware that I find it difficult to hold the binoculars still when they have too much zoom. Mine were 10x IIRC, and I already find it a bit difficult, for 20x binoculars you might need a tripod.

Go find an astronomy shop with friendly staff, preferably if the staff are astronomers themselves, and ask for advice too. That's what I did.

 

[trampledamage]

My daughter has an Orion Funscope. We love it. Great beginner scope for the money.

Thanks for the suggestion Kelso, I'll go and look at it.

Yellow Submarine, holding the binoculars is a problem I've been thinking of too, plus then she would have to be craning her neck to look at the sky. I'll have to see if I can get a tripod.

I have no idea if Saskatoon has an astronomy shop - guess it's time to find out


Thanks guys!

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Tricks with binoculars to get some stability are to use a camera tripod/monopod (if there is a similar screw-type mount) or rest them on a clothes line or wall. The Orion Funscope doesn't look too bad as it's only $60 although it's limited by it's tabletop mount. Buy a proper telescope if you feel real enthusiasm for the hobby and when you have the means to do so. Oh yes, one more thing - never use a telescope to look at the Sun directly even if the manufacturer has provided so-called Sun filters. You can use a refracting telescope to project the Sun's image, but a reflecting telescope isn't really suitable for this.

 

[Ronald Held]

At 7 binoculars would be better.

 

[Finn]

Baby steps, Aldo, baby steps. The OP didnt indicate how deep the to-be -7 girl's interests are. I'd go with the one in the OP. I had one even simpler that that at that age. I still had a great time looking at the moon and the stars.

The links by Aldo seems to be for those who are more serious about astronomy.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

That's true. Using a telescope properly requires quite a bit more knowledge and coordination. Also you can conveniently use binoculars for watching birds and other wildlife.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Oh yes, one more thing - never use a telescope to look at the Sun directly even if the manufacturer has provided so-called Sun filters.

I've looked at the sun a few times through a f/5 reflector and fancy sun filters, somewhere in the middle of the summer. With both eyes. There weren't any negative effects to my health. Well, apart from a few short panic attacks that the filter might fall off while I'm watching (as it didn't fit tight to the tube and could move freely). I also did half an hour paranoid checks for holes on the filter, and since I can almost see now, I think I didn't miss any.

Pointing the telescope at the sun, however, can be quite a challenge. Even glimpsing at the direction where the sun is can be pretty unpleasant, and I was seeing ghost images of the sun for a few days. So you either have to find it blindly or remain blind for the rest of your life. Or, well, both, like in my case. I finally dug up my solar glasses from the last eclipse and I finally could set everything up... Well, not really cause I couldn't see my telescope now since everything was black. I tried for a while, but in the end all I got was a sunburn on my face.

Anyway, with everything set, the heating of the telescope the sun following got off-course in about ten minutes, and I had to fix it manually every so often. Apparently metal tubes tend to deform quickly when they are heated, who could tell?

Unfortunately, there were no sunspots or other cool stuff, but at least there were clouds, and I even took a picture:

Projecting to a screen as you suggest can be fun too. Provided that you don't look directly accidentally, it works. Well, for a few seconds, because then the eye-piece begins to melt, and the image of the sun starts losing its circle shape. Well, if you're lucky, the eye-piece will be the only casualty... If the rest of the telescope isn't permanently deformed, and, well, you don't start a major fire with your death ray.

But I honestly don't see what the issue with looking at the sun with a telescope is?

P.S. Did I mention my acrophobia, which drove me crazy when I had to stay close the railings because the sun was right above me?

 

[PurpleBuddha]

This may be one of the cheapest usable telescopes I know about:

http://www.telescopes.com/telescopes/reflecting-telescopes/celestronastromaster114eqreflector.cfm

But I think a 7 year old would have some problems. I have a seven and nine year old. Both are very capable, but both get frustrated trying to use my scopes unless I help out quite a bit.

This scope is half the price of the one you were looking at, and a good deal bigger primary lens (mirror in this case):

http://www.telescopes.com/telescope...irstscopetelescopeofficalproductofiya2009.cfm

People have reported this is actually not too bad for 49.00. But of course any scope in the low end price bracket is going to be very limited (including the one from my first link). You will be able to see planets, especially Jupiter and Saturn and the moon without too much problem. But this is also a table top scope so you would need to set it on something stable to use it.

I believe that for a child the best thing is for you to get somewhat involved in the hobby and kind of teach them as you learn. If you go this route, when you look for a scope you generally want the biggest aperture lens/mirror you can afford, while keeping portability in mind. A very popular choice for a big aperture scope with a stable mount is the Dobsonian scope. This is a Newtonian design (primary lens is a mirror) and the way the mount is built gives you a fairly cheap stable solution compared to the cheap tripods that come with every low cost refractor scope (a wobbly mount is very frustrating). These make for excellent telescopes!

This is a good example, but comes in higher than you mentioned in your budget:

http://www.telescopes.com/telescope...humellz8deluxedobsonianreflectortelescope.cfm

If you find yourself at all interested in this route, make sure to watch a few youtube videos that feature the scope so you can get an idea of how big it is physically. This is more important than you might think as some people do not like moving around a bigger scope and setting it up, so it ends up spending all its time in the closet.

Reading up on the topic from the links Abso provided is certainly the best idea. This hobby can be very addicting and rewarding, but can also be somewhat frustrating for a beginner unless you get as much info as possible prior to making a purchase.

 

[iguana_tonante]

As a statistical cosmologist and data analysis guy, I feel useless in this thread.

 

[trampledamage]

As a statistical cosmologist and data analysis guy, I feel useless in this thread.

At least you probably understand the words!


Thanks for all your help guys, I'll start doing my homework now I have a place to start

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Oh yes, one more thing - never use a telescope to look at the Sun directly even if the manufacturer has provided so-called Sun filters.

Pointing the telescope at the sun, however, can be quite a challenge.

I used to adjust the direction of the telescope by aligning the shadows of the in-line screw fittings of the finder scope and also minimising the size of the shadow. Scopes nowadays come with software to track astronomical objects such as the Sun, and have all sorts of other fancy features.

The problem with Sun filters is that you can never be completely confident that they're blocking all of the spectrum effectively - they might be letting numerous infra red photons through that could still cause eye damage.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

My filters apparently did, because otherwise I would be blind now. I think that's a bit misleading because there are sun filters that do block all the required spectrum, and somebody who is selling you filters that aren't should be liable for serious damages to your health. I don't think that a reputable manufacturer or dealer in astronomical equipment would sell you a filter that doesn't work.

However, during the previous eclipse I nearly got a heart attack after reading a photographic forum. At least a few photographers were confident that they could use an IR filter (i.e. filters that block visible light) to block the sunlight and photograph the eclipse, and were advising everyone else to do the same. After telling them that IR filters don't block all the light from the sun and eye damage can still occur they said “No, they block everything and you are safe”... (without any evidence to back that up, of course).

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Whereas I might be inclined to trust filters manufactured by a reputable manufacturer, I would be very wary of unbranded ones made in China.

Solar Filter Safety

 

[Darth Picardous]

An 6 inch/F8 Dobsonian is always a great scope for kids to get started, nice views of the moon and planets and will show some details in the fuzzies.

Like everyone says, Rule #1 with sun filters is to throw them out.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

A 6" f/8 Dobsonian would probably retail at $200-300, which is probably more than TrampleDamage is willing to spend. There is, of course, always the "build your own" option for the more adventurous.

http://www.moonlightsys.com/atm/

 

[B.J.]

For those who would know, is there such a thing as a cheap beginner-level telescope with a star tracker?