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Can you cast guest actors for 1970's ST phase 2?

Eh, I got your point. Quibbling over the exact name of the latest fad in sci-fi doesn't really matter. We've seen Electricity, Atomics aka Radiation, in that role before. The nano-fad seems to be fading, actually. Maybe Phase II could have been a precursor to it, instead of relatively late in the game like Voyager.

I do remember a TNG episode where Wesley Crusher experiments with nanotech and 2 of the nanites escape, reproduce, and cause the Enterprise to malfunction, so that would predate Voyager.

I found it, it was episode "Evolution" which originally aired on September 23, 1989. Here is a link to it.

Here is the description of the episode:
The Enterprise is carrying an eminent scientist, Dr. Paul Stubbs, to the site of a binary star where they are expecting a massive stellar explosion to occur in a few hours. He has been waiting many years for this to occur and has devoted his entire life to its study. The Enterprise however begins to suffer from a series of malfunctions, some minor but others far more serious. Meanwhile, Dr. Beverly Crusher has returned to the Enterprise after a year at Starfleet Medical. She's concerned however if her presence may be limiting son Wesley's development. Can a 17 year-old boy develop normally if his mother is always around him? Wesley may be responsible for all the problems on the ship when his experiment in nanotechnology escapes from the lab. Fearing that the attack on the ship might prevent him from completing his experiments, Stubbs takes matters into his own hands.



Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
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Hmmm... which guest actors for Phase II?
John Saxon, surely. Dennis Cole. Paul Sand. Karen Valentine.
 
Hell, while I'm at it, Walker Edmiston -- also a very seasoned actor who played "Enik" on Land of the Lost.

Edmiston actually did a number of voiceover roles in TOS.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Walker_Edmiston

He was also a regularly heard voice on Mission: Impossible and had a couple of on-camera roles late in that series.


Eh, I got your point. Quibbling over the exact name of the latest fad in sci-fi doesn't really matter. We've seen Electricity, Atomics aka Radiation, in that role before. The nano-fad seems to be fading, actually. Maybe Phase II could have been a precursor to it, instead of relatively late in the game like Voyager.

The point isn't about the name. The point is that nobody writing science fiction in television -- or probably even prose -- in the 1970s would even have heard of nanotechnology. The concept barely even existed in real science. It wasn't until around 1986 that anyone, in science or science fiction, began thinking about nanotechnology as a possibility.
 
The point isn't about the name. The point is that nobody writing science fiction in television -- or probably even prose -- in the 1970s would even have heard of nanotechnology. The concept barely even existed in real science. It wasn't until around 1986 that anyone, in science or science fiction, began thinking about nanotechnology as a possibility.

My point was that the name is irrelevant to his idea. It would have either been replaced with the appropriate buzz-word of the era... or maybe could have made use of a concept that was already around but just hadn't proliferated in sci-fi yet.
 
My point was that the name is irrelevant to his idea. It would have either been replaced with the appropriate buzz-word of the era... or maybe could have made use of a concept that was already around but just hadn't proliferated in sci-fi yet.

Fine, but I think I may have given you the wrong impression about the historical facts here and I want to clear up that misunderstanding. Let's be clear: the concept of nanotechnology was not "around" at the time. In scientific circles, it was an obscure idea that hardly anyone had even heard of or given any serious thought to yet, which means that it was completely unknown within science fiction circles, and absolutely could not have been "around" from the perspective of television writers. As a rule, film and TV SF are 10-20 years behind the curve compared to prose SF. The only reason TNG managed to mention nanotechnology as early as 1989 (only 3 years after K. Eric Drexler's seminal book on the subject, Engines of Creation) was because they had a good science advisor. Hell, the original script for TNG's "Evolution" was about dust mites spontaneously evolving intelligence, but their science advisor at the time, Dave Krieger, persuaded them to change it to something less idiotic. And as far as I know, that was the very first time that the concept of nanotechnology was ever used in film or television science fiction. In fact, judging from the OED's SF Terminology Citations page, "Evolution" may have been the first significant work of fiction period to mention nanotechnology, a virtually unprecedented case of television SF being ahead of prose SF, or at least on the very cusp of a new trend. So nanotechnology as a fictional concept simply was not "around" any earlier than about 1989. I don't want to give you the false impression that it existed any earlier than that.
 
There was time for Larry Hagman to do an appearanace between the 5 episode Dallas pilot and the series premiere later that September. That would have been cool: Captain Kirk and Major Nelson on the Enterprise.

For that matter, a lot of my old TV favorites who were busy on other shows during Trek's run could have wound up on Phase II doing various guest spots: Richard Basehart, David Hedison, David Janssen, Marty Landau and Barbara Bain, fresh off 1999 (and Freddie Freiberger), etc. Lee Majors was just about out of a job at this point, too.
 
I think we would have seen Ricardo Montalbán and the return of Khan Noonien Singh. Probably in far a less epic way.

You may be right about that.

I would have liked to have seen Gary Lockwood come back as Gary Mitchell in Phase II. He could also play his twin brother who is a Star Fleet Medical Doctor. The Enterprise could be taking Dr. Mitchell to Delta Vega to recover his brother's body for a burial on Earth. Although Dr. Mitchell revives his brother using nano technology (or something else, like Fabrini medicine possibly combined with transporter technology) in order to try to cure his brother of the God-like super power caused by the Galactic Barrier. Instead, Gary gives his twin brother those God-like powers and Kirk and his senior officers have to figure out a way to neutralize both of them.

It's just a thought, Gary Lockwood could have played a new guest starring character on Phase II instead Gary Mitchell.


Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
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You just want to see Gary Lockwood play twins on Phase II because he did such a good job playing twins on The Six Million Dollar Man.
 
I don't mean to burst any bubbles here, but it is probably best that Phase II never happened in the 70s as planned. I think it probably would have been crap. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't TMP the alternate result of what was supposed to have been Phase II? TMP was a sh*t sandwich and very forgettable. Thankfully, they got their act together for TWOK and some (not all) of the subsequent movies. I think its best that Phase II did not happen when it was supposed to. Remember, GR had a tendency to go nuts when given too much money (hence the colossal failure of The Cage) and from what I understand, he would have been given some serious cash to go ahead with Phase II which means he probably would have done to the series what Lucas did to the last three movies of that other famous sci-fi/fantasy franchise that must not be named in the Trekkie universe.
 
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^I agree!! And I believe the tv and movie sci-fi in the '70 (before Star Wars) had the tendency to be a little... I don't know... nihilistic? See for example the first season of 'Space 1999'.

We surely would not have had the TNG "optimism". I believe phase 2 would have been very thematically similar to "Space 1999". Perhaps without the same absurd "science"!!!
 
While I personally feel that TMP is an excellent movie, I concede that it wasn't in itself what one would want to see in a weekly TV series. However, if they had made "In Thy Image" as a TV pilot as intended, it would've been rather different from TMP, since Robert Wise wouldn't have directed it and the script wouldn't have been rewritten for the big screen. The special effects sequences would've been less extensive, for one thing, since they wouldn't have had the same budget. The uniforms and sets would probably have been more colorful and less sterile, and probably the acting too, without Wise's stylistic preferences being a factor (cf. The Andromeda Strain). Decker and Ilia would've been regular characters, not guest stars, so their arcs would've felt more central to the series overall. (Part of the reason the Decker-Kirk conflict seems to fizzle out in the movie is because it's left over from what was going to be just a pilot episode, the beginning of a new status quo.) On the other hand, there would've been no Spock, and there's no telling whether that would've worked.

But arguably Phase II did get made to an extent. PII Kirk was supposed to be more of an elder statesman, a mentor to the up-and-coming Decker; so PII's Kirk, Decker, and Ilia pretty much became Picard, Riker, and Troi when TNG came along. And Data was a cross between PII's Xon (unemotional being seeking to understand humanity) and the title character from Roddenberry's The Questor Tapes (android seeking identity). So probably what we got in the first season of TNG is similar to what we might've gotten in Phase II.
 
(hence the colossal failure of The Cage)

:wtf:


Re: your reaction to my comments about The Cage; the studio didn't pick it up because it was too "out there." Personally, I thought it was poorly edited, not very well developed, and much of the acting was wooden. It made for a great back-story in Menagerie but it cannot stand up really well on its own. Hence, a colossal failure.

As far as TMP goes, I think it would have made an interesting 52 minute episode, but when stretched out to fill 132 minutes it just became excruciating long.
 
It's nonsense to call "The Cage" a colossal failure, since the network liked it enough to commission a second pilot. In fact, the network loved a lot about "The Cage" -- its intelligence, its ideas, its production values. And it was a great success in proving that Desilu, which had been considered a washed-up studio that only produced one sitcom and survived mainly by leasing out its production facilities to others, was capable of producing the most technically elaborate television series ever produced and doing so on a limited budget. But the problem there was that "The Cage" was an all-out, feature-grade production to show what Desilu could do at its best, and therefore it didn't represent the budgetary and logistical needs of a typical episode, which is the sort of thing a pilot is supposed to give a sense of so a seasonal budget can be worked out. "The Cage" (or rather, "The Menagerie," which was its actual title during production) got the network interested enough to move forward, but they needed to see a second pilot representing a more typical production before they could commit to a series.

There were some things about the pilot that they weren't happy with and wanted Roddenberry to improve -- mainly the casting. They weren't happy with the cast and characters. Roddenberry had promised them a progressive, ethnically diverse cast, which was what networks wanted at the time, but had delivered a mostly white cast of largely interchangeable characters. And they weren't happy with GR casting his mistress as the first officer. They were uncomfortable with Spock too, though they eventually got over that. And they did feel it was too sexy and too focused on "cerebral" matters over action.

But that doesn't make it a failure, since they still wanted Roddenberry to show them more, and once he satisfied their concerns, they bought the series. And the first pilot played a key role in making that sale. So it was by no means a "colossal" failure. If it had been, they wouldn't have asked for a second pilot, Star Trek would never have made it on the air, and we would've had to settle for being fans of, I dunno, The Invaders or The Six Million Dollar Man. At worst, it was a minimal failure, close enough to success that it kept the door open and paved the way for subsequent success.
 
So, going back to the scripts that were actually written or being written for Phase II, who would you see playing what parts? Kitumba is full of Klingon characters, like the young Kitumba himself, Ksia the warrior, and the older warlord Malkthon, Baru Taru the deputy warlord ("despite her warlike appearance, is very lovely"), and Admiral Li Po Yu ("In her forties, strikingly attractive without being pretty").
 
Okay, so we agree it sucked I just think it sucked harder than you do.

No, we don't agree on anything of the kind. I'm not talking about my personal opinion, I'm talking about its level of success with the network executives that it was shown to. The purpose of a pilot is to sell a series to a network, syndicator, or whoever would provide the funding for it. Therefore, a successful pilot would be defined as one that convinces the network (or whoever) to pay for the show, and a failed pilot would be one that does not convince them to do so. Since "The Cage" failed to sell the show in and of itself but did convince the network to pay for a second, more representative pilot, I would call that a partial success.

As for my personal opinion about the episode, I think it works very well as a science fiction story and achieves almost feature-level production values for its day. I agree with the network that it could've been better with a more diverse and interesting set of characters and performers, but it's an excellent story that's excellently made.
 
(hence the colossal failure of The Cage)

:wtf:

I think it is a wonderful piece of sci-fi adventure.

It literally "failed" to get picked up as a series.

It succeeded in getting a second pilot ordered. So a mitigated failure at worst, if one judges it purely on its purpose to get picked up as a series.

I judge it on more than that. But I am biased because I love it, too.

EDIT: Oops, Christoher said everything I said, but I hadn't read him first, I was so excited. Well, we're still right, anyway!
 
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