Romulans, Hidden Identities, and Tucker

[Cadet49]

Spoiler: The Romular War and Tucker

[

Spoiler: The Romulan Wars and Charles Tucker

. I quite enjoyed the Romulan War books, but A few things I still don't quite understand:

Why are the Romulans so insistent on hiding their identities at all costs - wouldn't they be actively promoting the idea that they are related to Vulcans, to drive a wedge of distrust between the Coalition allies, especially the Andorians, with their already historic distrust of the Vulcans? You would think the Romulans would want to flaunt that connection in the Coalition's face, especially when they started losing the war, to destabilize the alliance - what did they have to lose near the end, by revealing the truth?

Why did Trip not reveal that he was still alive after the war - why keep up a false ID, with his family grieving his fictional death, for all his remaining days? Were people after him, or something? Did the books explain this?

Since books are not canon, according to Trek licensing, and Tucker was shown killed on screen in the final Episode of ENT, does that mean other authors can write stories going with the onscreen idea that Tucker died in 2161 (though I know some people argue the ENT-D computer mixed up the death dates, or Riker mixed it up- a bit of a stretch, in my opinion, considering all the sources computers can cross-reference...), or do future ENT writers have to abide by the events in the ENT novels by the current writer?

/SPOILER]

 

[Reanok]

Spoiler: Enterprise Romulan war spoilers

To answer your questions about the books Marget Clark,AndyMangels and Micheal Martin got special permission by CBS to rewrite the mess that was TATV and have him fake his death in the book so he go undercover and find out what was happening in the Romulan empire. The cannon part about the Romulans not seeing their face is because in the original Tos episode it mentions when the Romulans were introduced for the first their faces were never seen and the fact the Vulcans were worried about what would happen if people knew that they were related to each other and the diveregence one group wnated to follow thwe teachings of Surak while the other who became the Romulans were warlike and Violent they wanted to conquer and control everyone. and it's areal messy situation for the Vulcans in the Enterpris eera. As for Trip still living under an alias was for his own safety if you're a have spy you can make alot of enemies who wouldn't want Trip to reveal their secrets and put his friends or loved ones in danger.As for what happens in future books I think theyd have to continue the books story established in the post romulan war era unless they were writing books that take place during the tv series.

Last time I talked to Micheal martin he wants to write more Enterprise era novels but hasn't heard back from the editors yet if he'll be allowed to write more Enterprise books. You might want to go to memory Alpha they have excellent articles about Vulcan and Romulans as well as Startrek.com having some excellent articles too.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Spoiler: The Romulan War and Tucker

Why are the Romulans so insistent on hiding their identities at all costs - wouldn't they be actively promoting the idea that they are related to Vulcans, to drive a wedge of distrust between the Coalition allies, especially the Andorians, with their already historic distrust of the Vulcans? You would think the Romulans would want to flaunt that connection in the Coalition's face, especially when they started losing the war, to destabilize the alliance - what did they have to lose near the end, by revealing the truth?

Speaking specifically about the Romulans, there'd still be reasons for them to have as little known about their culture and especially biology as possible. The Romulans deployed a lethal biogenic weapon against Haakona, for instance, wth genocidal effects. Would records of the DNA of the proto-Romulan colonists have survived on Vulcan? Certainly enough Coridanites and Draylaxians had incentive to try to repay genocide with genocide, and if even one vengeful group found out that the information necessary to create tailored biological weapons existed the consequences for Romulan civilization could be catastrophic. Being as enigmatic as possible to as many people and different polities as possible for as long as possible would have its advantages still.

Going at the Vulcan-neighbour end of things, although the revelation of the Romulans' origins as a Vulcan splinter would have a fracturing effect on the UFP, I'm not sure that the Romulans would see it as a very good decision. Not only would everyone know who the Romulans were and leave them vulnerable again, but even if the Federation fell apart completely the Romulans still wouldn't be able to take advantage. Earth would be weak, and the Coridanites and Draylaxians far from recovery, but the other powers in the area of the UFP core--Vulcan, Andor, Tellar--would still be intact and presumably able to hold their own against a Romulan Star Empire that had already been badly weakened.

And would the UFP fall apart even if the Romulans outed themselves as Vulcan offshoots? I'm not convinced that's the case. Knowledge of this wasn't public on Vulcan, the Romulans demonstrably attacked Vulcan with the destruction of Surak's katra, the Vulcan government could cite its secret operations against Romulus (the arming of the Haakonans, say), and the Vulcans did lead their neighbours in coming to Earth's rescue at Cheron. You might get stronger feelings against Vulcans, but you could still have a federation mobilized against a Romulus that was revealed as Vulcan in origin.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

Dammit, now I want to read these books.

 

[Therin of Andor]

If the Romulans revealed themselves in ENT novels, it would break the canonical scene in "Balance of Terror" (TOS).

If Trip revealed himself to the history books, it would break the 24th century canonical scenes set on the Enterprise-D in ENT's "These Are the Voyages..."

Licensed tie-ins sometimes bend canon a little, with permission of CBS Consumer Products, and/or mistakes can slip through unnoticed but they can't deliberately ignore onscreen, live-action facts.

 

[trash80]

In hindsight the truth about the Romulans not being known until BoT is unlikely but i think that TOS episode was just too iconic to change or tamper with any canonical details in later work. Has any Star Trek lit explored the aftermath of BoT, i would have thought the truth about who the Romulans were would have resonated across the Federation especially as, with extended life spans, i would have thought there would have been a fair few people still alive who had served or at least witnessed events in the war.

 

[Timo]

Especially on the Romulan side of things!

Who knows, perhaps Mark Lenard's character had killed a few (million?) humans back in the great war of the 2150s...

In hindsight, our heroes in "BoT" seem awfully ill informed on so many things. Invisibility is a well-known trick by the 2260s, yet even Spock is (or pretends to be?) ignorant of the practical possibilities. Everybody seems to have forgotten about the distinctive bird art on Romulan ships. Indeed, Kirk seems to be on an unsure footing about the nature of the war itself. "All right, people, we are now facing the Romulans. As you well know, they are, umm, were, ah, that is, Mr Spock, please tell the, uh, crew who the Romulans are."

Is this simply because the Romulan War was such a non-event from the human point of view? In canon, that war is not really mentioned much - it's only the Romulans who obsess about it. Or is it because Kirk and Spock have received a secret briefing about the Romulans prior to being sent to face them, and are only gradually working out how to deal with all the dangerous knowledge they can't share with their crew?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[rfmcdpei]

Especially on the Romulan side of things!

Who knows, perhaps Mark Lenard's character had killed a few (million?) humans back in the great war of the 2150s...

Does "Balance of Terror" represent the moment when it's confirmed that the Romulans are of Vulcan background, exclusive of rumours and state secrets and that kind of thing?

Is this simply because the Romulan War was such a non-event from the human point of view? In canon, that war is not really mentioned much - it's only the Romulans who obsess about it. Or is it because Kirk and Spock have received a secret briefing about the Romulans prior to being sent to face them, and are only gradually working out how to deal with all the dangerous knowledge they can't share with their crew?

In the context of the novelverse, I'd be much more inclined to assume the latter. "Balance of Terror" does say that the war directly impacted Earth, regardless, so the way did--well--impact the human homeworld.

 

[Christopher]

Does "Balance of Terror" represent the moment when it's confirmed that the Romulans are of Vulcan background, exclusive of rumours and state secrets and that kind of thing?

It represents the first time Romulans were seen by Federation citizens (as far as is publicly known), which led to Spock's conjecture that they were an offshoot of Vulcans. But given how many humanoid species resemble each other (humans/Argelians/Ekosians/Zeons/Elasians/etc.), I don't think that would've been seen as confirmation of a relationship in and of itself. That probably came later. As far as aired ST episodes go, it wasn't confirmed that Vulcans and Romulans shared a common ancestry until "The Enterprise Incident." Whether it was confirmed earlier in-universe is unclear.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Does "Balance of Terror" represent the moment when it's confirmed that the Romulans are of Vulcan background, exclusive of rumours and state secrets and that kind of thing?

It represents the first time Romulans were seen by Federation citizens (as far as is publicly known), which led to Spock's conjecture that they were an offshoot of Vulcans. But given how many humanoid species resemble each other (humans/Argelians/Ekosians/Zeons/Elasians/etc.), I don't think that would've been seen as confirmation of a relationship in and of itself. That probably came later. As far as aired ST episodes go, it wasn't confirmed that Vulcans and Romulans shared a common ancestry until "The Enterprise Incident." Whether it was confirmed earlier in-universe is unclear.

The events of "Balance of Terror" have always struck me as unlikely in themselves to have led to the revelation of Romulan identity to the Federation at large. The crew of the Enterprise were members of Starfleet operating under Starfleet discipline who would have shared the news, surely, only if they were allowed. There's space for multiple earlier encounters by Starfleet personnel (and others?) with Romulans which ended up revealing Romulan origins at 40 Eridani, on the line of the events described in Final Frontier. It's not evident to me that the events of the episode, featuring the Romulan destruction of Earth outposts with superweapons, would be revealed quickly. The sort of rapid shock and surprise following "Balance of Terror" described in, say, the FASA timeline doesn't seem credible to me.

(Has it ever been stated that, yes, after everything was declassified, it turns out "Balance of Terror" was the first time that any Federation citizens saw actual living Romulans?)

"Balance of Terror" sets a lower date as to the revelation of Romulan identity and origins. I don't think it provides the date.

 

[Christopher]

The events of "Balance of Terror" have always struck me as unlikely in themselves to have led to the revelation of Romulan identity to the Federation at large. The crew of the Enterprise were members of Starfleet operating under Starfleet discipline who would have shared the news, surely, only if they were allowed. There's space for multiple earlier encounters by Starfleet personnel (and others?) with Romulans which ended up revealing Romulan origins at 40 Eridani, on the line of the events described in Final Frontier. It's not evident to me that the events of the episode, featuring the Romulan destruction of Earth outposts with superweapons, would be revealed quickly. The sort of rapid shock and surprise following "Balance of Terror" described in, say, the FASA timeline doesn't seem credible to me.

That's a good argument as far as the general public's knowledge of the Romulans' true nature goes. You're right that the events of BoT would've probably been classified and there wouldn't have been an instant public panic.

However, I don't accept the argument that prior face-to-face Romulan contacts before BoT are feasible, because surely if Starfleet officers saw what Romulans looked like and reported it to Command, then other high-ranking Starfleet officers would be briefed on it, even if the public remained in the dark. The only reason Carey could get away with having George Kirk and Robert April meet Romulans in Final Frontier was by having them agree to keep it secret even from Starfleet. Same with Trip in the Enterprise novels, I assume. And it's unlikely that lots of Starfleet officers would've met Romulans and universally agreed not to tell Starfleet about it. So it's likely that the Enterprise's crew's lack of knowledge about the Romulans as of BoT is representative of Starfleet's knowledge about them in general (except maybe for some ultra-classified Starfleet Intelligence stuff).

(Has it ever been stated that, yes, after everything was declassified, it turns out "Balance of Terror" was the first time that any Federation citizens saw actual living Romulans?)

No, but why would it be? It's generally assumed, and that's good enough for TV and movie scripts, which need to be compact. It's what BoT asserted and there's never been any subsequent episode or film that attempted to contradict it (except maybe for the deleted TWOK material about Saavik being half-Romulan, which would require some Vulcan-Romulan interaction pre-BoT). So there's never been any need to make a point of throwing in gratuitous expository dialogue to reinforce what we already take for granted.

 

[Timo]

Romulan origins at 40 Eridani

On screen, our data on Romulans is so limited that it might actually be the Vulcans originated on Romulus! Some of them then moved to this desert hellhole, and eventually founded the logic religion, while others stuck to the lusher twin planets and remained martial and were banned from the desert colony in a bout of religious bigotry.

So it's likely that the Enterprise's crew's lack of knowledge about the Romulans as of BoT is representative of Starfleet's knowledge about them in general (except maybe for some ultra-classified Starfleet Intelligence stuff).

If there was lots of prior knowledge of human-Romulan encounters in the upper echelons of Starfleet, then Kirk's superiors would probably already have a pretty good idea of the circumstances in which such encounters might take place - and they would take specific precautions against this when sending Kirk to the Neutral Zone.

If, OTOH, there only were a handful of known cases buried deep in the SF Intelligence archives, then procedures for containment might not exist yet, and Kirk and pals would be let to blunder their way through the encounter as we saw happen.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ATimson]

However, I don't accept the argument that prior face-to-face Romulan contacts before BoT are feasible, because surely if Starfleet officers saw what Romulans looked like and reported it to Command, then other high-ranking Starfleet officers would be briefed on it, even if the public remained in the dark.

So it's likely that the Enterprise's crew's lack of knowledge about the Romulans as of BoT is representative of Starfleet's knowledge about them in general (except maybe for some ultra-classified Starfleet Intelligence stuff).

Suppose that Starfleet did brief high-ranking officers, or even medium-ranking officers like Kirk & Spock. What were they supposed to do once the Romulans were revealed to the bridge crew at large, say "oh, by the way, we already knew about them"?

I could be forgetting some dialogue from the episode here, but I don't think that the episode is at odds with Kirk already knowing.

 

[Christopher]

^I think that's a reach. The clear intent of the episode is that everyone is taken by surprise, and I have no interest in twisting the whole thing with some paranoid conspiracy fantasy about Kirk knowing all along but lying to his crew about it. There's no benefit to such revisionism in this case.

 

[ATimson]

^I think that's a reach. The clear intent of the episode is that everyone is taken by surprise, and I have no interest in twisting the whole thing with some paranoid conspiracy fantasy about Kirk knowing all along but lying to his crew about it. There's no benefit to such revisionism in this case.

Normally I'd agree. But I have a hard time seeing the Enterprise relaunch novels as being a prequel to TOS without some sort of twisting, whether it's Trip keeping things secret from Starfleet or Kirk keeping things secret from his crew.

Unless the events of "Balance of Terror" were changed by the Enterprise-E's interference with the mid-21st century...

 

[Christopher]

Trip keeping his experiences secret is an acceptable explanation. It's consistent with the clear intent of the novels. Kirk knowing all along but hiding it from his crew is contrary to the intent of the episode and it's rather unflattering to Kirk.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Trip keeping his experiences secret is an acceptable explanation. It's consistent with the clear intent of the novels. Kirk knowing all along but hiding it from his crew is contrary to the intent of the episode and it's rather unflattering to Kirk.

A question. Since, of the various players, it's the Vulcans who have by far the greatest knowledge of the Vulcans--wasn't T'Pol involved in a failed contact initiative with the Romulans at Tomed in 2148?--I wonder if there's a possibility that Spock, through family connections and others, might have had some knowledge.

 

[rfmcdpei]

I don't accept the argument that prior face-to-face Romulan contacts before BoT are feasible, because surely if Starfleet officers saw what Romulans looked like and reported it to Command, then other high-ranking Starfleet officers would be briefed on it, even if the public remained in the dark.

How many high-ranking Starfleet officers, though, and where? With its political sensitivities this is the sort of thing that could be compartmentalized.

The only reason Carey could get away with having George Kirk and Robert April meet Romulans in Final Frontier was by having them agree to keep it secret even from Starfleet. Same with Trip in the Enterprise novels, I assume. And it's unlikely that lots of Starfleet officers would've met Romulans and universally agreed not to tell Starfleet about it. So it's likely that the Enterprise's crew's lack of knowledge about the Romulans as of BoT is representative of Starfleet's knowledge about them in general (except maybe for some ultra-classified Starfleet Intelligence stuff).

Fair enough. I think there's still space for a couple of encounters that are kept quiet, but agree otherwise.

(Has it ever been stated that, yes, after everything was declassified, it turns out "Balance of Terror" was the first time that any Federation citizens saw actual living Romulans?)

No, but why would it be? It's generally assumed, and that's good enough for TV and movie scripts, which need to be compact. It's what BoT asserted and there's never been any subsequent episode or film that attempted to contradict it (except maybe for the deleted TWOK material about Saavik being half-Romulan, which would require some Vulcan-Romulan interaction pre-BoT).[/QUOTE]

Saavik's origins on Hellguard in the aftermath of a Romulan project aimed at infiltrating Vulcan has been developed in several novels, so I'm inclined to go with the idea of Vulcan-Romulan interaction independent of Federation-Romulan contact. It's plausible enough: the Romulans know everything about the Vulcans and were actively infiltratng Vulcan at least as early as the 22nd century (probably earlier; V'Las' political career didn't happen overnight), while knowledge of Romulan origins and intentions seems to have been known to a fair number of Vulcans directly involved in countering the Romulan threat.

 

[Christopher]

A question. Since, of the various players, it's the Vulcans who have by far the greatest knowledge of the Vulcans--wasn't T'Pol involved in a failed contact initiative with the Romulans at Tomed in 2148?--I wonder if there's a possibility that Spock, through family connections and others, might have had some knowledge.

Of course not. That doesn't make any sense. Spock was the one who had the idea to tap into their transmissions and get a picture of their bridge in the first place, because he was curious to see what they looked like. And he was clearly surprised when they turned out to look like Vulcans. If he'd already known of a connection and had reason to keep it secret, then obviously he wouldn't have taken the action that exposed that secret.

 

[Therin of Andor]

On screen, our data on Romulans is so limited that it might actually be the Vulcans originated on Romulus!

This was actually floated by the production team of ENT, during an interview: that our assumptions about Treklore are not necessarily correct.