United Earth President?

[GalaxyClass1701]

Just finished Articles of the Federation and didn't like it at first but ended up loving it.

Anyway does Earth still have its own leader in the 24th century besides the Federation President?

 

[zarkon]

I don't remember ever reading about one apart from maybe that year one book with the "butterfly catchers", although it's been years since I read it and obviously that's not 24th century.

Apart from the senate representation which has been gone into, I guess earth's leadership isn't really something that'd be relevant to any books set in that era unless earth was to pull an andor.

 

[David cgc]

Yep. The "Enterprise" books retconned the "Minister Samuels" who appeared in the last couple episodes of the show into "Prime Minister Samuels," and the books have preserved that government through the 24th century (the United Earth PM was mentioned, along with the President of the United States, and the Federation President, as touring the devastation in San Francisco after the Breen attack in "Eleven Hours Out" in the collection Tales of the Dominion War).

ETA: Memory Beta is reminding me that there was also a President of Earth mentioned in "Year One" and some other books. It's not unheard of to have both a Prime Minister and a President in a government, though only the Prime Minister has been mentioned in the 24th century, so that position might not have continued after the creation of the Federation.

 

[Sci]

Yep. The "Enterprise" books retconned the "Minister Samuels" who appeared in the last couple episodes of the show into "Prime Minister Samuels," and the books have preserved that government through the 24th century (the United Earth PM was mentioned, along with the President of the United States, and the Federation President, as touring the devastation in San Francisco after the Breen attack in "Eleven Hours Out" in the collection Tales of the Dominion War).

ETA: Memory Beta is reminding me that there was also a President of Earth mentioned in "Year One" and some other books. It's not unheard of to have both a Prime Minister and a President in a government, though only the Prime Minister has been mentioned in the 24th century, so that position might not have continued after the creation of the Federation.

Well, in most parliamentary republics, the President is a mostly ceremonial position with emergency reserve powers rather than being the true leader of the republic. (The exception being semi-presidential systems like France, where the President holds real executive power but has to exercise it through a Prime Minister the Parliament will like.) In those systems, their main duties are to appoint the Prime Minister after an election based on which party has a majority of seats in the Parliament, to send and receive ambassadors, and to represent the unity of the country in a nonpartisan fashion. So it wouldn't be surprising if we just don't tend to hear about the United Earth Presidency that much.

And we already know from Trill: Unjoined that Federation Member worlds can have Presidents of their own (what with the President of Trill being the leader of that world).

So there's no particular reason there couldn't be a President of United Earth right up into the 24th Century.

And just as an interesting historical note: Until 1790, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania was led by the President of the Supreme Executive Council, and until 1792, Delaware was led by a President of the State of Delaware rather than a Governor. If you had gotten a convention of state governors together with George Washington in 1789 and shouted, "Mister President," you would have had to specify to whom you were speaking.

 

[JB2005]

Might be that Earth only has a Prime Minister because they recognise the UFP President as their Head of State?

 

[Sci]

Might be that Earth only has a Prime Minister because they recognise the UFP President as their Head of State?

I mean, it's possible. But I think there's no reason to presume that's the case, especially since, if the Federation is, indeed, a federation (rather than a unitary state), there'd really be no need to abolish the United Earth Presidency. (Certainly Trill hasn't abolished its Presidency just because they joined the Federation, nor Deneva.)

And if we look for a real-world precedent, for instance, India and Canada are both federations. States in India retain their own ceremonial Governors who appoint a Chief Minister who holds real executive power -- the equivalent of a President and Prime Minister. In Canada, each province is nominally led by a ceremonial Lieutenant-Governor appointed by the Queen of Canada on the advice of the Prime Minister, but the Lieutenant-Governor is itself a ceremonial position representing the Queen; their only real job is to appoint the provincial Premier, who, again, is the real leader of the province.

So just as real-life parliamentary federation need not necessarily abolish their provinces' ceremonial heads of state in favor of the federation's head of state, there's no reason that United Earth would have needed to abolish its presidency upon joining the Federation.

 

[DrBashir]

In TVH it's the Federation President that issues the planetary distress call. It's possible that there is also an Eath President who sent a different distress call but there's usually one official spokesperson for the government. Having different offical distress calls can lead to confusion. Uhura and Spock did mention multiple distress calls but they could be from private ships.

 

[iguana_tonante]

To add another real-life example, here in Italy we have Presidents for everything.

We have the President of the Republic (ceremonial head of state), the President of the Council of Ministers (government leader - prime minister), the President of the Chamber of Deputies (speaker of the lower house), the President of the Senate (chairman of the upper house), the Region Presidents (governors of regional units), the Province Presidents (governors of sub-regional units), the President of the Supreme Council of the Judiciary (self-governing body of the judiciary), the President of the Constitutional Court, even the senior Judge of a court is called the President. Fuck, in Italy even boroughs have a President. Pretty much any position, private or public, with "Chief", "Chair", "Main", "Prime" or "First" in the name translates as Presidente in Italian.

So it's not weird for me to think of a President of Earth subordinate to the President of the UFP.

 

[Sci]

In TVH it's the Federation President that issues the planetary distress call. It's possible that there is also an Eath President who sent a different distress call but there's usually one official spokesperson for the government.

Yeah, but the United Earth government is a separate government from the Federation government. That's why the Federation is a federation rather than a unitary state.

For a roughly analogous situation, when Hurricane Katrina hit in 2005, both the Governor of the State of Louisiana and the President of the United States issued separate declarations of states of emergency.

And, of course, issuing a distress signal -- which in this case was primarily intended to warn incoming ships away from Earth -- is not the same thing as legally declaring an emergency.

Uhura and Spock did mention multiple distress calls but they could be from private ships.

But one could also have come from the UE government. There is, again, no reason to presume the United Earth presidency doesn't exist.

To add another real-life example, here in Italy we have Presidents for everything.

We have the President of the Republic (ceremonial head of state), the President of the Council of Ministers (government leader - prime minister), the President of the Chamber of Deputies (speaker of the lower house), the President of the Senate (chairman of the upper house), the Region Presidents (governors of regional units), the Province Presidents (governors of sub-regional units), the President of the Supreme Council of the Judiciary (self-governing body of the judiciary), the President of the Constitutional Court, even the senior Judge of a court is called the President. Fuck, in Italy even boroughs have a President. Pretty much any position, private or public, with "Chief", "Chair", "Main", "Prime" or "First" in the name translates as Presidente in Italian.

Heh. Yeah, and here in the United States, we have more Presidents than we tend to think. There's the President of the United States, there's the President of the United States Senate, there's the President Pro Tempore of the United States Senate, the Presidents of the Parishes of the State of Louisiana (Louisiana's equivalent to counties), Presidents of various villages in the State of Illinois, and Presidents of the Boroughs of the City of New York.

So it's not weird for me to think of a President of Earth subordinate to the President of the UFP.

Well, you know, "subordinate" may not be the best phrase. In a federation, the provincial/regional/state governments aren't exactly subordinate to the federation government. They have areas of exclusive jurisdiction and share sovereignty with the central government.

But, yeah, point taken -- there's no reason there can't be a mostly-ceremonial-with-reserve-powers President of United Earth alongside a Prime Minister of United Earth within the Federation. Just like there's no reason that there can't be a President of Deneva and President of Trill.

 

[William Leisner]

FWIW, my Slings and Arrows ebook, The Insolence of Office, did make mention of United Earth's civil government, and had them subjected to criticism for their inaction during the events of "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost" (my handwave explanation for why Jaresh-Inyo was the one to order Starfleet Security troops onto the streets of Earth).

 

[iguana_tonante]

Ha, good one.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

FWIW, my Slings and Arrows ebook, The Insolence of Office, did make mention of United Earth's civil government, and had them subjected to criticism for their inaction during the events of "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost" (my handwave explanation for why Jaresh-Inyo was the one to order Starfleet Security troops onto the streets of Earth).

AFAIK, there were going to be United Earth governmental forces "federalized" by Jaresh-Inyo in those episodes but it was cut for time.