Why is Gotham such a crap hole?
- Thread starter Trekker4747
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That narrows it down to 52 locations. (What an unusual number )
As mentioned on the North Eastern United States. Metropolis is also along the coast line...except in "Smallville" where it is in Kansas State about a three hour drive from Smallville, Kansas.
^ It could have been...I don't think the Donner Films really clarified this but I don't remember.
Would it? That's what the Batman comics were for a good thirty years, and it's what the highly successful 1960s Batman television series was. In the show (which was a far more faithful interpretation of the comics of the time than most people today realize), Batman actually was a duly deputized officer of the law. In fact, a lot of the time, he and Robin basically operated as the Gotham Police Department's CSI unit -- the ones who did the scientific analysis of the clues that were gathered, because they were the only ones who had the high-tech equipment and scientific knowhow.
And it wasn't boring, because the crimes and the criminals weren't boring. They weren't corrupt politicians or brutal gangsters or insane serial killers or whatever, but they were flamboyant, gimmick-driven supervillains with devious and convoluted masterplans. The idea was that you needed unusual crimefighters to take on unusual criminals. The modern idea isn't so different; it's just that "unusual" has come to mean "unusually violent/entrenched/pervasive" rather than "unusually creative/ingenious/bizarre."
This came up just a few days ago on the Law and the Multiverse blog, and here's what I said there (with links added):
And later in that same thread:
Although Siegel & Shuster originally based Metropolis on the city where they lived, Cleveland, Ohio.
I think I'd prefer a Wayne/Batman that's a balance between the campy, good-natured and humored one we saw in the 60s TV series/movies and the brooding, dark, one with deep psychological issues we see in modern interpretations.
Really, I think the Nolan movies got this all the "most right" as Wayne/Batman himself isn't a virtual psychopath himself and Gotham even seem to be, somewhat, of a livable city with just a few extreme problems with corruption in law enforcement and organized crime with, okay, two major "terrorist-like" events occurring inside of a couple of years. (The LoA's plan to destroy and "re-create" Gotham, the Joker's terrorizing of the city over the course a couple of weeks.) But, on the whole, it seems like Gotham in the current crop of movies is mostly a "normal" city (I also prefer the non overly gothic look of the architecture and such of the city.)
As opposed to the comics and animated series were, cripes, it seems like the type of place where they'd have to put antidepressants in the water supply to keep the citizenry from killing themselves.
Really, I think the Nolan movies got this all the "most right" as Wayne/Batman himself isn't a virtual psychopath himself and Gotham even seem to be, somewhat, of a livable city with just a few extreme problems with corruption in law enforcement and organized crime with, okay, two major "terrorist-like" events occurring inside of a couple of years. (The LoA's plan to destroy and "re-create" Gotham, the Joker's terrorizing of the city over the course a couple of weeks.) But, on the whole, it seems like Gotham in the current crop of movies is mostly a "normal" city (I also prefer the non overly gothic look of the architecture and such of the city.)
As opposed to the comics and animated series were, cripes, it seems like the type of place where they'd have to put antidepressants in the water supply to keep the citizenry from killing themselves.
Trekker you should read Batman, Inc because what you describe is what Grant Morrison has been trying to incorporate into the character. Since returning from Darkseid's time trap Bruce has been a lot more balanced in personality in his book.
You are right. I am confusing it with Smallville.
People stay in Gotham because of the availability of good apartments. In Metropolis, whole buildings get wiped out in superfights. But in Gotham, you just have to clear out the tenants lying dead with wide smiles or houseplants around their necks, and there's an apartment all ready for a new tenant.
Weird thing is, iirc for the longest time Smallville itself was supposed to be in rural Maryland or similar. I want to think that its placement in Kansas is relatively new.
Metropolis is usually placed in Delaware (it almost has to be, otherwise you'd displace cities that clearly have independent existence or you'd have to put it in places you wouldn't expect, like North Carolina or Maine). Some people say Gotham's is in New Jersey, like, across the bay in a sort of sister cities fashion. So from the highest points in Cryptodover, DE, you can clearly make out Megabridgeton, NJ. I find this to be really dumb for a lot of reasons.
Lately, I've been thinking of Gotham as mid-northwestern. Michigan, Illinois, Indiana. Chicago? Nah. But think about it. I can't recall any DC Comic ever mentioning Gary.
What I've always wondered is if DCU United States has a population of like 400 million with its dozen extra top-twenty-sized cities, alongside all the real cities which do exist. I mean, are the ten million Metropolitans extra, or are New York, Boston, Wilmington, Hartford, Richmond, etc., each a million down?
Right. That's what I was confusing. Smallville in Kansas is an invention of the Donner film.
Remember John Byrne's rewritten Superman origin? He came in the middle of some catastrophic long winter that cut off the farm from civilization, thus explaining why baby Kent wasn't born in a hospital with all the appropriate paperwork (he also made Clark a legit U.S. citizen, by having the birthing matrix finalize his gestation upon arrival). And I guess the reason no one knew Martha was preggers is 'cause she was chubby enough not to realize it herself, thinking she'd gone menopausal. Anyway, this got me thinking.
What if Kal-el's arrival itself was a cataclysmic event that reshaped the U.S., and the world for that matter? Rocket comes through a wormhole, in hot pursuit by bits of exploding Kryptonian skyscrapers. The Rocket hovers, scanning the planet for appropriate host-parents, while the meteor shower continues on, slamming into wherever in the world that would produce a plume of dust big enough to envelop the planet and cause a mini-ice age, with several years of long winters, crop failure, and so on.
Then I'm thinking this causes more than half of the population of the rural U.S. to flee to cities on the coasts, establishing new shanty towns. Meanwhile, the Kryptonian technology discovered in meteor shrapnel helps the U.S. quickly build up entire new futuristic cities to deal with the population influx. They would be right next to existing cities, but the resulting metropolises would get new nicknames. Like L.A. is now Star City. Or the new part of L.A. is Star City. It'd be like the whole NYC boroughs thing.
You know if you think Gotham is a crap hole normally, you should check it out whenever Batman is either crippled (knightfall) or dead (Final Crisis/Battle for the Cowl), becuase the moment Batman isn't considered a factor anymore every supervillain and their grandma has declared themsleves king of the hill and are killing anyone who challanges this or just happens to be in the area.
Oh everything also goes to hell in a hand basket if the U.S. government ever declares Gotham as no longer part of the United States.
Oh everything also goes to hell in a hand basket if the U.S. government ever declares Gotham as no longer part of the United States.
No Man's Land was Gotham depicted at it's worse...same with War Games.
The only two problems with that is we see certain heroes often going outside their "territory" to help people.
And the 2nd, is what a terrible light it turns on all heroes. The idea that you would let others suffer and die just to allow another person who isnt up to the task to handle it.
Sad, pathetic reasons.
