Yeah, I remember that now.
Yeah, I remember that now.
Pretty decent episode tonight. And I know this is vague as all hell but it felt more "open" to me than some of the episodes where the characters seem kind of penned in.
YJ seem to face a lot of really high-level opponents and crises for the junior team. God only knows what the main team is dealing with.
YJ seem to face a lot of really high-level opponents and crises for the junior team. God only knows what the main team is dealing with.
Agreed; that sequence was just gorgeous.
Definitely a good episode, and I want to see more Zatanna!
Too bad she's grounded for life. 
A Justice League cartoon running parallel would be pretty neat for the crossover potential. We could have had an episode with the league fighting Ivy's plants while the kids infiltrate their HQ on the other show. The trick would be to keep the two shows separate enough that you don't have to watch both without sacrificing the shared universe, but it could be done.
When Zatanna was introduced in the comics her father was missing and she was an adult, probably early 20s. She enlisted various members of the JLA to help her in her search for her father and was a competent spellcaster.
Teen Zatanna is new, but I saw it coming when they introduced Zatara as a member of this Justice League.
with all due respect to anyone who has actually read a comic, does it matter?
Every comic, movie, TV show etc etc, is its own take on the DC verse (or Marvel) none are the same, and all use aspects in a way that best suits themselves.
We saw in Revelation, that the team need a magical upgrade, and Zatanna fits the bill.
As for this weeks episode, I think it did really well to explain Red Tornado's actions, which was something we needed, and even added some history to the this little corner of DC. Still not liking Superboy however, I think ive only ever liked him in Terrors, is it too much to ask for an episode of him & Superman?
I get that Captain Marvel is actually a kid, but his childish antics still annoy me, he is meant to be a member of the League after all.
While I agree with that, I think it's also valid to be curious about how an adaptation's version of the universe compares to the comics' version -- not in some silly judgmental "did they get it right" way, but just for the sake of comparing two incarnations of a concept, or backtracking the origins of an idea.
fair enough
This is what I meant. I was just curious, because I know the other characters were all introduced as teenagers, but I'd only ever heard of Zatanna being an adult.
Yeah, as far as I was aware, Zatanna was always an adult character. On the other hand, she's always been a character defined as the inheritor of her father's gifts and legacy, so it works in this context to paint her as a young protegee of the same generation as "The Team" (they really should come up with a name) and make Zatara a member of the adult heroes' generation/the JL.
I thought this was a really good episode overall. The JSA cameos and the history of the Reds was a very strong point. The "We shall build a Red army and create a Red planet" seemed a bit cheesy... but hey, Red Volcano was nothing if not diabolical. 
The ripping off of android!Morrow's arms and the crushing of his head was surprisingly graphic, I thought... not in a bad way but... wow, that could only work with a robot. The deaths of the three Reds (and Red Volcano's last words) was an extremely well-done sequence.
I was a bit confused about things overall - had to watch the episode twice and also go back and rewatch "Homefront" to really understand what the Reds story was. So Red Torpedo and Red Inferno were always trying to kill the team, but Red Tornado only looked like he'd been corrupted so as to go back and find Morrow, right?
As well-done and dramatic as the Reds' story was though... the highlight for me was Zatanna and her interactions with the team. Robin especially - perhaps the only time he's ever been caught off-guard, and multiple times too. Zee seems like a fun character and it's great the way she pretty much inserted herself into the team from the very beginning. Her "Are you guys having a psychic conversation? Cause I can't decide if that's awesome or just really rude" was excellent.
Wally the Dumb Idea guy - and yet also the guy who knew how to deal with the Supervolcano - got some nice moments as well.
Well, otoh... M'gann was going to invade his mind to take the thoughts out of his head, effectively forcing him to talk. Was Zatanna's method less ethical? And I'm not so sure Ivo would've cooperated - we saw how he eventually warned "Morrow" after all.
I also wondered if this might be a sideways reference to her acting (with the approval of certain of the League) to wipe the memories of various supervillians which came back to haunt them.
With one line - "be as chalant as you like" - Zee made all of Dick's horrible language jokes almost worth it. She seems to be more than a match for Robin.
He's the Goddamned Batman, he doesn't have to worry about any Child Labor Laws.
The ripping off of android!Morrow's arms and the crushing of his head was surprisingly graphic, I thought... not in a bad way but... wow, that could only work with a robot. The deaths of the three Reds (and Red Volcano's last words) was an extremely well-done sequence. I was a bit confused about things overall - had to watch the episode twice and also go back and rewatch "Homefront" to really understand what the Reds story was. So Red Torpedo and Red Inferno were always trying to kill the team, but Red Tornado only looked like he'd been corrupted so as to go back and find Morrow, right?
As well-done and dramatic as the Reds' story was though... the highlight for me was Zatanna and her interactions with the team. Robin especially - perhaps the only time he's ever been caught off-guard, and multiple times too. Zee seems like a fun character and it's great the way she pretty much inserted herself into the team from the very beginning. Her "Are you guys having a psychic conversation? Cause I can't decide if that's awesome or just really rude" was excellent.
Wally the Dumb Idea guy - and yet also the guy who knew how to deal with the Supervolcano - got some nice moments as well.
Well, otoh... M'gann was going to invade his mind to take the thoughts out of his head, effectively forcing him to talk. Was Zatanna's method less ethical? And I'm not so sure Ivo would've cooperated - we saw how he eventually warned "Morrow" after all.
I also wondered if this might be a sideways reference to her acting (with the approval of certain of the League) to wipe the memories of various supervillians which came back to haunt them.
With one line - "be as chalant as you like" - Zee made all of Dick's horrible language jokes almost worth it. She seems to be more than a match for Robin.
He's the Goddamned Batman, he doesn't have to worry about any Child Labor Laws.
Definitely a good episode, and I want to see more Zatanna!
Too bad she's grounded for life.
[Zatara]She's grounded FOR LIFE!!![/Zatara] 
While it's been a few decades since I read Zatanna's first adventure with the JLA, I seem to recall she was written as a young woman in her late teens or early twenties. More of a contemporary of Barbara Gordon or Linda Danvers than Dick Grayson or Wally West. When she actually joined the JLA many years latter she came across as older, possibly close in age to most League members.
Err, I've always had the impression Dick and Babs were pretty much contemporaries... maybe a couple years difference, but nothing significant. They were pretty seriously involved after all.
Well, thats a "recent" development. Back in the 60s Dick was a high school student and Babs was a college graduate.
We started seeing the first evidence of Dick/Babs when Dick was in college and Babs was in Congress. This was all pre-Crisis, and probably puts their age difference at around 6-7 years at the time. As the years went on, Babs kept getting younger so that a romance between the two was a bit more feasible.
IIRC in BTAS Zatanna was cast as a pseudo love interest of Bruce Wayne. Not being much of a comic book reader I have no idea if that was already established in the books or an invention of the show. Mind you it wouldn't be the only such instance. Lois Lane and (slightly creepily) Babs spring to mind.
The Bats/Zee relationship in the comics is a very close friendship since their fathers were close friends. Wiki says Zatanna at one point wanted something more but both realized Bruce was too dedicated to the cowl for it to work.
I definitely remember that BTAS episode. Maybe her (potential) relationship with Robin is also something of a reference to Bruce and Zatanna's closeness in comics?
I definitely remember that BTAS episode. Maybe her (potential) relationship with Robin is also something of a reference to Bruce and Zatanna's closeness in comics?
Zatanna and Bruce was an invention of Paul Dini's probably due to his personal fondness/obsession for the character. When he was the writer on Detective he also introduced it into the comics. Prior to that Zatanna's only major contribution to Batman's life was mindwiping him when he saw what they did to Dr. Light in Identity Crisis.
