Are B-4 or Data mentioned in any post-Nemesis Treklit?

[JD]

I thought Maddox and Co. created Rhea McAdams? Or was she a different type of android? It's been a while since I read Immortal Coil.

 

[JB2005]

That was working with the Da Vinci guy though...and it was a brain that used some kind of holographic component?

 

[David Mack]

That was working with the Da Vinci guy though...and it was a brain that used some kind of holographic component?

It was the holotronic brain, and the secrets of its creation were lost when the lab was destroyed in Immortal Coil. So, that's not really an option.

 

[F. King Daniel]

How about a transporter duplicate? Or even a temporal one? Then they merge the Data minds in one, and the B-4's in the other.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Yeah, the problem with the name B4 is it implies that at the outset he was not intended as the final product.

Since when are prototypes intended to be the final product?

Juliana Tainer tells Data, in "Inheritance", there were three prototypes before Lore and Data. Let's call them B-1, B-2 and B-3. (B as in "beta test"?) Data actually has those three prototypes in his lab in "Immortal Coil"; at some point he'd gone back to Soong's lab and retrieved them. It isn't stated if they also look like Soong as a young man.

The B-4 was a prototype Juliana wasn't aware of, between B-3 and Lore. Or maybe Soong started with B-4 and counted backwards?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Or maybe B-4 was an Chinese knock-off.

 

[JB2005]

B-4 was a test of making androids open source - which is why the remans were able to reprogram him so easily...

Unfortunately Juliana was a vehement opponent of creative commons and so when she said 3 prototypes she muttered "B4 is dead to me"

 

[datalogan]

Christopher L. Bennett wrote:

Naturally, the novels will have to remain consistent with what the actual film established about 2387 -- Romulus exploding, Spock disappearing -- but anything that comes specifically from Countdown is optional. The novelists could choose to be consistent with it, but they don't have to.

It disappoints me that the writers would feel obligated to follow anything from the "Prime" timeline. It was never clearly established in the movie that "Spock Prime" came from the same universe/timeline as the novel continuity. In fact, an argument could be made that he MUST have came from a different timeline because he remembered Jim Kirk's father surviving long enough to see Jim Kirk in command of the Enterprise even though it was established in "Enterprise: The First Adventure" and "Final Frontier" that George Samuel Kirk, Sr. had died prior to that, around 2259.

I know the novels have been required to follow canon as best they can. And there have been other examples of times when things established in novels (like Riker's middle name) have later been retconned (retro-actively changed by canon) by a later canon story (like TNG "Second Chances"). But I've really seen the novels as their own story/timeline since late 2002 when Nemesis came out. There have been so many significant events since then in the novels (like establishment of Titan crew, death of characters like Janeway and Kyle Riker, "destruction" of the Borg, creation of Typhon Pact) that it is almost a foregone conclusion that if there were ever any other canon story that came along after Nemesis that it would establish something that would be irreconcilable from the novels and all these novels will be established as "alternate timeline" anyway. So why not just embrace that mentality now?

I realize, however, that the main reason I want to see the novels as a separate timeline and not worry about "meeting up" with canon established by Spock Prime is because I personally hate that bit of canon. I mean, really, Romulus and Remus were destroyed by a supernova that "threatened to destroy the entire galaxy" and also "speed up" unexpectedly at the end so that it couldn't be stopped in time with "red matter"? So scientifically impossible! I hate to think that the great writers out there writing Star Trek novels now (like Bennett and Mack and Ward and Beyer) would have to write such an implausible and ridiculous plot-point into their works.

But then again, I have been impressed before with great writers who take ridiculous premises and find a way to write well-thought out stories that explain why the ridiculous premises actually makes sense. Maybe our great Star Trek writers will accomplish the impossible.

 

[JarodRussell]

Well the writers all unconditionally obey the editors.

 

[F. King Daniel]

So scientifically impossible!

Yeah, that's the first and only time that Trek's substituted fantasy for science

 

[captcalhoun]

it's mind-bogglingly stupid too.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^An FTL supernova not being stopped in time to save a planet is mind-bogglingly stupid? Compared to a planet hatching and a giant flaming bird flying out and chasing a starship at warp speed? Or any of the other silliness Captain Calhoun deals with regularly?

I think not.

 

[Idran]

^An FTL supernova not being stopped in time to save a planet is mind-bogglingly stupid? Compared to a planet hatching and a giant flaming bird flying out and chasing a starship at warp speed? Or any of the other silliness Captain Calhoun deals with regularly?

I think not.

Not a great comparison; personally I always thought those bits in NF were stupid too, I just kind of ignored them for the sake of the parts I liked. I'd doubt I'm the only one.

(Though I'm on the side of "go with what we saw in Star Trek because it's canon" in the larger argument.)

 

[captcalhoun]

a giant flaming bird living inside a planet and hatching out is no more stupid than a giant single-celled amoeba or Apollo showing up.

magic red goo that turns an FTL supernova into a black hole is mind bogglingly stupid.

time-travel through a black hole is mind-bogglingly stupid.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Nice that you can see a distinction in there somewhere.

 

[Relayer1]

It really couldn't hurt to run the novels into Countdown and Trek XI continuity. It would make the more anally retentive amongst us happy, and after that point the novelverse is free and clear to run its own continuity.

And Datalogan - I think it is established that "Spock Prime" came from the same universe/timeline as the novel continuity. It has apparently already been established that "Enterprise: The First Adventure" and "Final Frontier" are both NOT in the current (post relaunch) continuity.

 

[zarkon]

I'd just like data back so TNG books can be more fun. It's a bit thin on the ground for decent characters right now.

 

[captcalhoun]

i disagree. i like Trys, Dina and Jasminder.

 

[zarkon]

I don't dislike them, but...they're just there. I don't feel interested in them in the least.

 

[F. King Daniel]

IMO the post-Nemesis TNG cast is weak. I haven't connected with any of the newbies and the only member of the "old guard" left whom I care about is Picard. I say it's time to go Countdownwards and break up the crew.

Data's Enterprise-E should take up an Aventine-style cameo role, and there's loads of potential for The Ashes of Eden/The Last Roundup/The Fearful Summons(but better) -style reunion adventures starring Ambassador Picard and other TNG cast members - who could also crop up individually in other series'.