SW blu-rays have changes to the films again

[TremblingBluStar]

It turns from red to green, clearly indicating that power has been restored. As the pilot says, "Power's back!" After that, the movie switches to show the cockpit window:

SCREENSHOT

As you can see, a laser makes a direct hit on the window, lighting up the cockpit. Seconds later, the cockpit is struck again by another laser:

SCREENSHOT

Here is a shot right after the pilot declares "Deflector shields up at maximum."

I just watched the scene in question, which can be viewed here.

Basically, and I hate to say it, but RLM was right and the person who wrote the rebuttal was either not paying attention to the film or lied to make his point.

Here is exactly how the scene plays out:

The pilot announces that the shield generator has been hit. Droids are dispatched.

Several droids are hit, after which the pilot announces that the shield are gone (why they didn't protect the droids, I do not know).

R2 sticks the thingy in the thingy, and the display shows that the power is back. The pilot then says "power's back". He didn't say the shields are up.

R2 welds some parts together. The pilot says R2 "bypassed the main power drive". This is where the window shot shows bolts hitting the ship.

The pilot says "deflector shields up at maximum", you hear a humming like the shields are going up, and the vessel shakes as it accelerates away.

The exterior shot shows the vessel fly by the Trade Federation vessels, and not take a single hit!

Go ahead and watch the video, and let me know what you think.

 

[Guartho]

This is what I get for just giving in.

 

[Set Harth]

Do you believe TPM is 100% perfect? Is that a prerequisite of your enjoyment? I ask because your posts in this thread give the impression that you think it's flawless art.

Just another tired all-or-nothing scheme. You're not talking about my actual posts in this forum, which identified a major flaw of the film; similarly, the actual content of Stoklasa's review is swept under the rug and replaced with a fictional error-free version. Are TPM not being 100% perfect and Stoklasa not being 100% truthful mutually exclusive propositions?

Basically, and I hate to say it, but RLM was right and the person who wrote the rebuttal was either not paying attention to the film or lied to make his point.

You hate to say it, eh? So we're back at square one with Stoklasa's imaginary infallibility intact - because the concept that he made false claims is apparently just too difficult to accept. Did someone say something about religion?

Here is exactly how the scene plays out:

The pilot announces that the shield generator has been hit. Droids are dispatched.

Several droids are hit, after which the pilot announces that the shield are gone (why they didn't protect the droids, I do not know).

R2 sticks the thingy in the thingy, and the display shows that the power is back. The pilot then says "power's back". He didn't say the shields are up.

The power's back to what, exactly?

What part of the ship was lacking power at that point besides the shields?

Was the ship's propulsion lacking power?

How about its internal lighting? Artificial gravity?

R2 welds some parts together. The pilot says R2 "bypassed the main power drive". This is where the window shot shows bolts hitting the ship.

Bolts are hitting the ship, you say? What would tend to happen in that case if the shields were in fact not up at that point as you suggest?

The pilot says "deflector shields up at maximum", you hear a humming like the shields are going up, and the vessel shakes as it accelerates away.

The exterior shot shows the vessel fly by the Trade Federation vessels, and not take a single hit!

That's right, it doesn't take a single hit - not a single hit in addition to the ones it already took, that is.

Keep trying to change Stoklasa's mistake into a success if you must, but this is just one example of his various misrepresentations of the film.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Do you believe TPM is 100% perfect? Is that a prerequisite of your enjoyment? I ask because your posts in this thread give the impression that you think it's flawless art.

Just another tired all-or-nothing scheme. You're not talking about my actual posts in this forum, which identified a major flaw of the film; similarly, the actual content of Stoklasa's review is swept under the rug and replaced with a fictional error-free version. Are TPM not being 100% perfect and Stoklasa not being 100% truthful mutually exclusive propositions?

Basically, and I hate to say it, but RLM was right and the person who wrote the rebuttal was either not paying attention to the film or lied to make his point.

You hate to say it, eh? So we're back at square one with Stoklasa's imaginary infallibility intact - because the concept that he made false claims is apparently just too difficult to accept. Did someone say something about religion?



The power's back to what, exactly?

What part of the ship was lacking power at that point besides the shields?

Was the ship's propulsion lacking power?

How about its internal lighting? Artificial gravity?

R2 welds some parts together. The pilot says R2 "bypassed the main power drive". This is where the window shot shows bolts hitting the ship.

Bolts are hitting the ship, you say? What would happen in that case if the shields were in fact not up at that point as you suggest?

The pilot says "deflector shields up at maximum", you hear a humming like the shields are going up, and the vessel shakes as it accelerates away.

The exterior shot shows the vessel fly by the Trade Federation vessels, and not take a single hit!

That's right, it doesn't take a single hit - not a single hit in addition to the ones it already took, that is.

Keep trying to change Stoklasa's mistake into a success if you must, but this is just one example of his various misrepresentations of the film.

Well, that's what Stoklasa said: The ship does not take a hit, so R2-D2 did nothing that actually helped them... he was fixing the deflector shield, remember

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

He may entertain his fans, but generally speaking his arguments aren't very "good". They make prequel haters feel good, which is a different animal entirely.

I love the prequels despite their many flaws, and I really like RLM's reviews. I think his arguments are spot-on and well argued. Jim Raynor's rebuttal is poorly written, bitter, petty and intellectually insular, and misses the point quite spectacularly.

 

[Set Harth]

Well, that's what Stoklasa said: The ship does not take a hit, so R2-D2 did nothing that actually helped them...

...and that's why he's wrong, because we saw that the ship does take a hit after power to the shields is restored.

he was fixing the deflector shield, remember

I know that, as my last post should have made sufficiently clear to anyone paying even minimal attention.

Jim Raynor's rebuttal is poorly written, bitter, petty and intellectually insular, and misses the point quite spectacularly.

The point of the rebuttal is that the majority of Stoklasa's claims are either false, inconsistent with the spirit of the OT, inconsistent with one another, misguided, or otherwise not substantive. You can call that "missing the point" if you must, but in that case you seem to miss the point that Stoklasa's false statements and failed arguments reflect poorly on the alleged merits of his review.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

You hate to say it, eh? So we're back at square one with Stoklasa's imaginary infallibility intact - because the concept that he made false claims is apparently just too difficult to accept. Did someone say something about religion?

I didn't say anything about religion. I believe that was you speaking the crazy talk.

What part of the ship was lacking power at that point besides the shields?

Nope. Just the shields. First R2 gets power back, and a few seconds later the shields are raised. It was pretty clear from the scene in question.

Bolts are hitting the ship, you say? What would tend to happen in that case if the shields were in fact not up at that point as you suggest?

I dunno. We are talking about imaginary ships and technology, right? We have seen ships on Star Wars take his with no shields and survive. And since the scene clearly shows the ship being hit with no shields, this is obviously not impossible.

That's right, it doesn't take a single hit - not a single hit in addition to the ones it already took, that is.

That it took before R2 raised the shields.

Keep trying to change Stoklasa's mistake into a success if you must, but this is just one example of his various misrepresentations of the film.

I'm not turning anything into anything. Just explaining what was clearly shown in the film.

Either way, I better end this discussion before we start arguing that the sky is purple or unicorns live in Antarctica.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

...and that's why he's wrong, because we saw that the ship does take a hit after power to the shields is restored.

Watch the scene again.

It clearly shows power was down. R2 fixes main power. The pilot says "power's back", not shields are up. If the shields were up at that point, why would he bother announcing it a few seconds later?

Really. This is a no brainer.

Again, I am not saying RLM's reviews are flawless, but he clearly didn't "misrepresent" this scene.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

...and that's why he's wrong, because we saw that the ship does take a hit after power to the shields is restored.

I've seen the film a lot and don't think it takes a hit after the shields are fixed by R2 and if it does its a glancing blow.

 

[Set Harth]

and don't think it takes a hit after the shields are fixed by R2

It does.

and if it does its a glancing blow.

You have no specific basis to make that determination.

It clearly shows power was down. R2 fixes main power. The pilot says "power's back", not shields are up.

Once again, the film never says that main power was down, and the concept that main power was down does not fit what we see in the film. We see nothing on the ship stop working besides the shields. The shield generator was hit.

If the shields were up at that point, why would he bother announcing it a few seconds later?

What he announces is that they're at maximum strength, which is not the same thing as being up at lesser strength. If the shields were not up before that, how is it that the ship conveniently takes hits without apparent effect?

he clearly didn't "misrepresent" this scene.

If you refuse to admit it, that means it never happened.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Even if the rebuttal was right on every single individual point that was nitpicked (and he's not) Stoklasa's overall point still holds up, perhaps even better because so much "rationalizing" has to be done to make the prequel films "seem" as good as the older films

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

You have no basis to make that determination.

if it had taken a real hit, theyn would be dead or the plane (ship) would look damaged

 

[Set Harth]

if it had taken a real hit, theyn would be dead or the plane (ship) would look damaged

...unless the shields were active.

Even if the rebuttal was right on every single individual point that was nitpicked (and he's not) Stoklasa's overall point still holds up

I guess that means we might as well assume the rebuttal was right on every point ( and thus Stoklasa was wrong on every point cited by Raynor ), if Stoklasa is still "right" no matter how many of his claims are proven false.

 

[Python Trek]

For my kids' classmates, "Star Wars" seems to increasingly mean "LEGO Star Wars". Those games seem to be really popular.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I've argued with born again Christians that are less obstinate than you. this

I guess that means we can assume the rebuttal was right on every point ( and thus Stoklasa was wrong on every point cited by Raynor )

is a confounding way to debate, as I never said such a thing. I said "if"

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

here's the scene: starts at about four minutes in

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqGU22UeZMM&feature=related[/yt]

 

[Set Harth]

Nope. Just the shields.

Exactly. Nothing was lacking power except the shields. So when we hear that the power's back, does this mean that the power's "back" to all the systems that didn't lose it in the first place, or does it mean that the power's back to the shields? One of these makes sense. The other does not.

The shield generator was what was hit. Hitting the shield generator does not deprive the ship of power.

is a confounding way to debate, as I never said such a thing. I said "if"

I know what you said: Even if the rebuttal was right on every single individual point that was nitpicked (and he's not) Stoklasa's overall point still holds up.
So my point was that defending Stoklasa on specific points cited by Raynor seems ultimately pointless if his review is assumed to "still hold up" even in the event that he is proven wrong on each specific point cited in the rebuttal.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

ok it starts he says "shield generator's been hit.
then
"if we cant get the shield generator fixed, we'll be sitting ducks"
then
'shields are gone (R2 is still out there working)
then
'powers back that little droid did it. bypassed the main power drive. deflector shields up at maximum.'
and no, they don't get hit again after that. Which is the point Stoklasa made.

 

[Set Harth]

'powers back that little droid did it. bypassed the main power drive. deflector shields up at maximum.'
and no, they don't get hit again after that.

Yes, they do get hit again after R2 restores power to the shields, but before Ric finishes his spiel about what's going on. It's right there in the clip.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Now you're definitely wrong, they do not show it getting hit. It's a view from the cockpit.