Preview--IDW's Star trek ongoing #1

[Pauln6]

Yeah - how ironic, especially since I would only ever bother to mention a story idea in the hope that somebody would take it up and run with it.

Mind you it's not exactly that straightforward. Every single modern sci fi story is derivative of what came before and getting into the specifics, there are a limited number of characters and a limited combination of stories to be told. If I were to say that I wished for a story where Scotty is to be made a captain, that is so generic that it would not be a bar to future stories where Scotty is promoted. If I were to post an idea about Scotty being promoted to captain after saving the Earth one day out of the Acadamy, ridiculous though that plot may be, it is specific enough that if it were to crop up in an 'official' story there might be a risk of plagarism.

However, as Christopher says, it isn't the risk of plagarism, which is quite hard to prove, it's the risk of being accused and having to waste time and money defending the allegation.

Maybe part of the terms and conditions on these sites need to say: "Any thoughts and ideas I might have are hereby copyrighted by *insert relevant studio*. I hereby waive my right to independent thought and become one with the Star Trek collective. All hail the Shat."

 

[Christopher]

Yeah - how ironic, especially since I would only ever bother to mention a story idea in the hope that somebody would take it up and run with it.

That's just not the way it works in professional writing. This isn't a hobby for us. It's a paying job. Ideas are things of monetary value, and that changes the rules. Especially when there are jerks out there eager to file nuisance plagiarism lawsuits in order to rip off publishers and authors.

See, the thing is, the reason plagiarism lawsuits are such a widespread problem is that there's no such thing as a truly unique story idea. Any idea you might want to suggest is one that a number of professional authors have probably already had. Plagiarism suits almost never have merit because any similarity between two ideas is usually just going to be coincidence. But because it's so easy and commonplace for one person to have an idea that resembles another person's idea, that makes it easy for the creeps to jump on any opportunity to file a lawsuit. And even though the suits would usually get thrown out, it would still cost valuable time and money to fight them off in court.

So we just can't run the risk of making ourselves receptive to unsolicited story ideas. If we did so, it would leave us exposed to those people out there who would only want to exploit the opportunity to file lawsuits. And there would be no real benefit to it, because contrary to what you'd think, any idea you have to suggest is probably one that many of us have already thought of anyway. Ideas aren't that hard to come up with. The challenging part is figuring out how to execute them.

Maybe part of the terms and conditions on these sites need to say: "Any thoughts and ideas I might have are hereby copyrighted by *insert relevant studio*. I hereby waive my right to independent thought and become one with the Star Trek collective. All hail the Shat."

That would never work, and it would set a bad precedent. If studios and publishers could get ideas handed to them for free like that, they might become less willing to pay us hard-working authors to come up with them.

It's like I said earlier. In professional writing, stories are things of value. And it's important that those who generate value are justly compensated for it. Because if some of them were willing to give it away, it would undermine the bargaining position of those who depend on it for their income.

And, again, the odds that any story idea someone might propose on a BBS would actually be worth paying for are slim.

 

[JarodRussell]

I'm wondering why Bob Orci can still interact with talkbacks on Trekmovie. There are so many story ideas and plot elements posted by fans. How come they aren't afraid of nuisance plagiarism lawsuits?

And what difference does it make if a story idea is posted in this forum (Trek Literature) or the other one (Fan Fiction) to the chance of getting hit by a lawsuit?


Some posts here sound more like childish blaming. "It's entirely your fault this story never got printed! You're a bad fan, Apgar! A bad fan!"

 

[Christopher]

I'm wondering why Bob Orci can still interact with talkbacks on Trekmovie. There are so many story ideas and plot elements posted by fans. How come they aren't afraid of nuisance plagiarism lawsuits?

I don't know -- you'd have to ask them. Maybe because Bad Robot is rich enough to fight them off. Simon & Schuster isn't.

And what difference does it make if a story idea is posted in this forum (Trek Literature) or the other one (Fan Fiction) to the chance of getting hit by a lawsuit?

Because the professional writers don't read the Fan Fiction forum.

 

[Pauln6]

Maybe part of the terms and conditions on these sites need to say: "Any thoughts and ideas I might have are hereby copyrighted by *insert relevant studio*. I hereby waive my right to independent thought and become one with the Star Trek collective. All hail the Shat."

That would never work, and it would set a bad precedent. If studios and publishers could get ideas handed to them for free like that, they might become less willing to pay us hard-working authors to come up with them.

Your are not of the Body! All Hail the Shat!

 

[Christopher]

^You're really misunderstanding this. The oppressive element here isn't the publishers or the studios, it's the jerks who are trying to get money from them by filing plagiarism suits. The publishers, studios, and authors are just trying to protect themselves from that type of attack.

 

[Pauln6]

I'm not so green as I'm cabbage looking. It was just a joke! As a lawyer, I do understand perfectly. We just don't suffer that much with this sort of thing in the UK except where the books have been so hugely massively successful (Da Vinci Code, Harry Potter) that somebody thinks it's worth a punt. It is easy to forget that forums are international and that other nations have much more litigious mentalities. In fact there is a current investigation into the increase in litigation culture in the UK that seems to be bleeding across from the USA. I'm a lawyer and even I think that would be a bad thing.

However, it's hard to limit speculation if a thread wanders across to discuss the themes that the writers of the comic series or sequel might intend to explore. This discussion will certainly make me think more carefully about the way I speculate in a general thread that isn't clearly labelled as a speculation thread for the sake of the writers.

 

[JarodRussell]

Because the professional writers don't read the Fan Fiction forum.

How can one prove that?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Because the professional writers don't read the Fan Fiction forum.

How can one prove that?

Well, IP address tracing would be one way, but it's cumbersome and time-consuming and, frankly, not worth the trouble. If it were ever truly an issue, the board could make the Fan Fiction and Fan Film/Audio forums opt-in, like the Neutral Zone.

But I'd point out that professional writers do, in fact, read (and, in some cases, write) fan fiction. I was just this morning listening to a Doctor Who fan audio; that's fan fiction. I know that many of the writers here have watched Starship Exeter or New Voyages/Phase II; that's fan fiction. Not all writers are as paranoid as Christopher is.

 

[Therin of Andor]

How can one prove that?

Well, the pro authors sign a contract with Pocket Books that promises they will deliver their own work. They owe it to themselves to avoid situations where their contract is jeopardized.

If they've lifted slabs out of some fan's online fan fic and plonked it into their novel, they'll be found out. They will have breached their contract to deliver original work. If they've identified an obscure "idea" some fan posted on a BBS and turned it into a spectacular piece of writing, then it's still essentially the author's own work, and it could be brushed off as coincidence that they both came up with the same "idea".

But if the fan's idea is extensively explained, and is more like a novel outline or story pitch, and posted publicly, and the pro author mines a significant amount of those details, then he's ventured into dangerous territory.

 

[Christopher]

^Of course, real plagiarism by professionals is extremely rare, because we know we'd get caught. As I've said, the danger is from the economic cost of fighting off frivolous plagiarism lawsuits. If someone sues us because our books vaguely resemble their ideas, it's almost bound to be coincidence; but if they can prove that we were exposed to their ideas at some point, that we read an online thread where they talked about their ideas, then it would make it harder for us to prove we didn't plagiarize them. That's why we have to be careful to avoid being placed in that position.

 

[JD]

Personally, I'm more than willing to give up the ability to post story ideas if it means we can have exchanges with the authors.

 

[Christopher]

^And you can still post story ideas (and stories) in Fan Fiction, because the authors don't go there.

 

[Kelso]

I loved comment that Mitchell and Kelso were a year ahead of Kirk at the academy- as Kirk enrolled several later than he had in the prime timeline.

Or is it too far off-topic to talk about the comic in this thread?

 

[Destructor]

I hope that it is at least compatible with that interpretation

It would seem that, at least at the time the Typhon Pact novels were written, that the possibility of fitting the novelverse and Countdown into one "vague history" was being considered or at least teased....

Spoiler: Typhon Pact

Picard contemplates becoming a Federation Ambassador in Paths of Disharmony, and in Rough Beasts of Empire, Spock becomes a legal resident of Romulus in 2382, five years prior to the supernova, the time he said he did in Countdown.

That makes me really happy and I am looking forward to the post-Destiny novels even more now.

teaching your kids not to talk to strangers. Probably 99 percent of the strangers out there are people who'd never consider harming your kids...

The added (off-topic, but interesting) complication: many child sexual assaults are perpetrated by a person known to the child. Not.Strangers.

The vast majority, in fact.

Don't forget- J.K. Rowling was sued for plagiarism because she used the term "muggles", which another person had used in some small, obscure book published before Harry Potter.

I assume the suit was not successful? As I understand it, most of the words from the HP universe are archaic terms from the English language for something else.

Personally, I'm more than willing to give up the ability to post story ideas if it means we can have exchanges with the authors.

I agree, and I totally understand the reasons that Christopher has outlined and recognize the necessity of it, but it's still a pain we can't discuss ideas here with the same abandon that we do in the rest of the forum. I assume any agreement on TrekBBS like: "I agree not to sue authors over story ideas discussed on this forum." would have little standing in a court of law?

 

[Pauln6]

I loved comment that Mitchell and Kelso were a year ahead of Kirk at the academy- as Kirk enrolled several later than he had in the prime timeline.

Or is it too far off-topic to talk about the comic in this thread?

I wonder to what extent they will use the pre-existing characters in the re-tellings? Mitchell's appearance is obviously needed as the antagonist and Kelso has one day left to retirement so they both have a story purpose. Dehner's absence, while irritating as the principle female lead, might simply have been decided so that our heroes have to find some new way to defeat Mitchell unless they hand-wave away (or alter) his exponential power curve (according to TOS Sulu).

Chekov and Sulu were totally unnecessary in issue 1 so their inclusion may indicate a desire to feature the Big Seven in every issue, possibly for contractual reasons. This could lead to superfluous support characters being dropped unless they have an important story purpose such as a short life span. I would not be a huge fan of that as one of the things I liked least about TNG and Voyager was the tendency to use the main cast outside their main role e.g. Data for science (particularly exobiology) and engineering stories instead of having some science characters or Kim, Paris, and Neelix for geology instead of the ship's geologist. For example, in issue 1, if Dehner did not accept a posting to the ship, why not use the psychologist who replaced her, or are we supposed to believe that the ship set off on a 5-year mission with key posts unfilled? In TOS, the medical staff had a psychiatrist on staff. Why not ask her to advise instead, even if 'off camera'?

One other thing I didn't like was the way Spock presented his additional evidence to Kirk. Firstly, he waited until everybody else had left, thus stifling any debate or advice (or lines) from the other senior crew, particularly McCoy who, one would have thought, would have something to say about his patient's consciousness and (unlike Kirk) has no strong personal relationship with Mitchell, and secondly he fails to consider any other possible explanations.

For example, Mitchell still possesses and can access his memories which means there must be SOME brain activity and existing memories to access unless those memories are now being stored elsewhere e.g. in another dimension or energy state that Spock's telepathy cannot access. Or Mitchell's increasing psychic abilities might allow him to completely block any telepathic intrusion - an increased ability much like that which Vulcans themselves can use to block Klingon mind-sifters.

Having said that, Spock could be doing this very deliberately - aware that Mitchell represents a genuine and increasing threat and, aware of Kirk's personal relationship with Mitchell, he 'edits' his report and only mentions the one possibility that might relieve Kirk of any guilt when he has to do what must be done.

If that's the case, I really like this new Spock! However, evidence from the movie points to the opposite. NuSpock doesn't ruthlessly apply logic and can be more emotional than the humans. He needs to ditch Uhura - she's holding him back! Give us more ruthless Spock!

 

[Trek Survivor]

Finally read issue #1. Good stuff! Loved the cover (it was the one of all seven of them).

The story was just different enough to be entertaining, even if we knew where it was going. And it "felt" like Trek '09, which is credit to the writer.

Looking forward to #2.

 

[Christopher]

I agree, and I totally understand the reasons that Christopher has outlined and recognize the necessity of it, but it's still a pain we can't discuss ideas here with the same abandon that we do in the rest of the forum. I assume any agreement on TrekBBS like: "I agree not to sue authors over story ideas discussed on this forum." would have little standing in a court of law?

If it could, it would've been implemented already across the Web, don't you think?

Chekov and Sulu were totally unnecessary in issue 1 so their inclusion may indicate a desire to feature the Big Seven in every issue, possibly for contractual reasons.

I'm sure it was necessary for readers unfamiliar with the original pilot, people who came into Trek fandom through the movie and are seeing this story for the first time. If the comic just presented them with Mitchell and Kelso in those roles, they'd wonder, "Hey, where the heck are Sulu and Chekov?"

 

[Therin of Andor]

I assume any agreement on TrekBBS like: "I agree not to sue authors over story ideas discussed on this forum." would have little standing in a court of law?

What about if you wrote an unpublished fanfic story, lent it to me and I posted it as a detailed "great story idea" here on TrekBBS, saying that "I agree not to sue authors over story ideas discussed on this forum"?

Then a pro author uses your "great story idea" in a novel, dashing your hopes of sending sample chapters from it to Pocket via your literary agent. You never agreed to the waiver and so your lawsuit ends up costing Pocket $$$$$$, even if it gets tossed out of court.

Kelso has one day left to retirement

Eh?

 

[Christopher]

Kelso has one day left to retirement

Eh?

I assume that's a jokey way of saying he's marked for death, like the cop-movie cliche where the hero's partner has a day left before retirement and then gets killed.