My dad and best friend are republicans

[Sean Aaron]

But engineering feats? Last time I checked Zebra weren't building sky scrapers or space shuttles.

Read up on the termite mounds of Southern Africa and come back to me - we can't touch that shit on a similar scale and we wouldn't regard termites as having much in the way of intelligence.

I'd say rather than spirituality human beings would benefit from some basic fucking humility.

 

[RJDiogenes]

The term spirituality is derived from the word spirit, which has more connotations than the mere occult. The spirit can refer to a non-corporeal essence when used in the religious sense, or it can refer to intelligence or sentience when used in the secular sense.

It can also refer to booze, which is probably the best spirituality of all.

 

[RoJoHen]

It can also refer to booze, which is probably the best spirituality of all.

I am very spiritual.

 

[Amaris]

It can also refer to booze, which is probably the best spirituality of all.

I am very spiritual.

Considering your previous occupation, you could say you're a member of the Clergy.

 

[WeAreTheBorg]

People that has gone through hell...they all turn to religions. Take it from them... They speak from experience.

They all turn to religions ? That's of course wrong. Everyone with experience know that.

And I can tell you that right now that you are wrong from personal experience.

Did you mean to speak for everyone who has ever suffered or is that just clumsy wording?

Let me tell you a story. When I was 4 I met a boy in Kindergarden. We became fast friends. We were both somewhat awkward and for a time neither of us had very many other friends that you would actually see outside of school. We remained best friends all the way to age 25. Then he got cancer and died, last summer.

How did I deal with this? As an atheist, I wondered if I would turn to spiritual matters in a time like that. But no, when I thought about it, the idea of any religion or any idea of God being true just angered the hell out of me. I instead took solace in the fact that everything was matter in motion, all life was blind selection of randomly varying replicated DNA, that the univers didn't care and that I was lucky to be alive in it after billions of years of blind evolution. There was no plan that had this in mind. There was no God punishing me or my friend.

Even the idea that his conciousness was erased was of no harm to me. He was dead for billions of years before he was born and never suffered the slightest inconvenience. And the idea that his spirit was floating about somewhere was strangely uncomforting to me. Because if that spirit was truly him I don't think he would like it very much, nor would he or anyone relish the idea of eternal existence in any state. And if he was "pure conciousness" as Chopra would say, then it's not him at all but some vague notion of energy that contains some essence of him without the personality, memories, wants, desires, likes, dislikes, goals, hopes, fears.... no. All that is bunk and I was very happy to believe so.

A year on I'm completely healed emotionally, though I wish he were still around, and that healing was not only not helped by religion or spirituality, it was helped by knowing that there is no God, no plan, no soul, and that he and I got to share time in this universe as a massively complex arrangement of atoms that is a gift... a gift made all the more precious by the fact that it's limited.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ My condolences on the loss of your friend.

 

[Kemaiku]

It can also refer to booze, which is probably the best spirituality of all.

I think thats one form of spirituality that has any chance of uniting mankind. And if it doesn't, we all be too pissed to care.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Depends on what you mean by the larger world. Spiritually generally refers to what can't be seen. As for bettering yourself, you might as well say going to college is spiritual.

If you are going to college because you want to make a larger impact in the world or be connected to other people, I'd say it is spiritual.

If you are going to get laid or drink a lot, probably not.

 

[RoJoHen]

If you are going to get laid or drink a lot, probably not.

We've already been over this...

It can also refer to booze, which is probably the best spirituality of all.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Read up on the termite mounds of Southern Africa and come back to me - we can't touch that shit on a similar scale and we wouldn't regard termites as having much in the way of intelligence.

Really? How did the termites come up with that particular for of mound? Did they draw up blueprints? Come up with complicated math and chemical analysis to create supports and new materials?

Or was it simply millions of years of evolution that led them to building such structures on an instinctual level?

With birds, it's a similar situation. They don't build nests because one of them suddenly thought to himself "hey, I bet I'd get laid if I built one of these to protect my eggs". No. However, over millions of years the birds that built nests mated and reproduced so that doing so is now wired into their genes.

Granted, humans do a lot of what we do on an instinctual level as well. But regarding engineering, humans at least can improve on their designs. In a thousand years African termites will still be building mounds in the same manner as they are today. They won't discover that they can make them out of bronze, for example.

I'd say rather than spirituality human beings would benefit from some basic fucking humility.

Oh, I agree. You and I share a lot of the same values, I believe, and feel the same regarding what humans should or should not be doing to the natural world.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

We've already been over this...

It can also refer to booze, which is probably the best spirituality of all.

I think we can all agree with that. Especially if embarrassing drunken dancing is involved.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Really? How did the termites come up with that particular for of mound? Did they draw up blueprints? Come up with complicated math and chemical analysis to create supports and new materials?

Or was it simply millions of years of evolution that led them to building such structures on an instinctual level?

With birds, it's a similar situation. They don't build nests because one of them suddenly thought to himself "hey, I bet I'd get laid if I built one of these to protect my eggs". No. However, over millions of years the birds that built nests mated and reproduced so that doing so is now wired into their genes.

Granted, humans do a lot of what we do on an instinctual level as well. But regarding engineering, humans at least can improve on their designs. In a thousand years African termites will still be building mounds in the same manner as they are today. They won't discover that they can make them out of bronze, for example.

You're presuming a lot is based upon instinct which isn't necessarily the case. Weaver birds definitely learn nest design from each other - some are pretty piss poor at it and they don't get mates as a result.

Termites may well instinctually know about nest building, but I wouldn't assume that either. Anyway my point was that animals do indeed perform engineering feats whether they create a set of blueprints for humans to read or not.

 

[Squiggy]

How did the termites come up with that particular for of mound

Evolution. The species or groups that didn't do that got eaten and didn't pass their genes on to the next generation. The ones that did build were safe to propagate.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

BTW, I think you need to read his next paragraph, Squiggy. He says the same thing you did.

 

[Squiggy]

Ah...well never mind. I'm an idiot.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Depends on what you mean by the larger world. Spiritually generally refers to what can't be seen. As for bettering yourself, you might as well say going to college is spiritual.

If you are going to college because you want to make a larger impact in the world or be connected to other people, I'd say it is spiritual.

If you are going to get laid or drink a lot, probably not.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Evolution. The species or groups that didn't do that got eaten and didn't pass their genes on to the next generation. The ones that did build were safe to propagate.

[pedantry]Given the purpose of the mound is not only defence but an air-conditioned environment for enhanced crop production I'd say there are multiple variables.[/pedantry]

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Evolution. The species or groups that didn't do that got eaten and didn't pass their genes on to the next generation. The ones that did build were safe to propagate.

[pedantry]Given the purpose of the mound is not only defence but an air-conditioned environment for enhanced crop production I'd say there are multiple variables.[/pedantry]

But that's also related to survival and therefore the passing on of those successful genes.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Evolution. The species or groups that didn't do that got eaten and didn't pass their genes on to the next generation. The ones that did build were safe to propagate.

[pedantry]Given the purpose of the mound is not only defence but an air-conditioned environment for enhanced crop production I'd say there are multiple variables.[/pedantry]

But that's also related to survival and therefore the passing on of those successful genes.

Yeah, you have eat and have a place to stay if you want to survive.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Been covered already. Yes, there is a commonly held definition of spirituality that means exactly what I am saying. If anything, we disagree on a matter of semantics.