Vacation Days!

[Scout101]

I don't quite get the logic behind giving you all your vacation upfront, and then having it expire at the end of the year, vs accruing vacation over time, and then letting you (for example) only carry over 10 days.

In the accrual method, at least if you quit, you actually had to work for the days you have in the bank, and get paid out for. Giving you them all at once (with the stated logic that they won't have to pay you out as much on banked vacation days) doesn't make much sense to me, as it guarantees that they'll either have to pay EVERY employee that quits some amount of paid vacation time anyway. And unless you quit on 12/31, they end up having to pay you for vacation time that you wouldn't have otherwise earned in the first place! I mean, what happens if you take 2 weeks' vacation in January, and then quit? Just gave you two weeks' pay for no reason, when they only would have owed you about 3 hours of vacation time if you were doing accrual...

 

[Scout101]

As for the breaking up of sick days and vacation days: I kinda like it that way. Suspect from an employer's standpoint, it makes more sense, too. If you have to lose a vacation day because you got the flu (or a few days/week, even if it's really the flu and not just a cold), you're gonna be pissed if it cost you real vacation days. Say you had a trip planned for next month, needed the vacation time, and then got sick. Kinda screws you, and forces you to consider coming into work sick as hell, and infecting everyone else.

By separating them, you plan your vacation time and have those days, and sick days allow you to actually stay home if sick without hurting your other plans. Also prevents you from being irresponsible and using all your personal days (without having sick days separate) and then getting sick with no vacation days left.

In asking various friends, it seems that most of us that have separate vacation/sick days have more total days than those that just get all-purpose personal days. Not always true, but at least for the couple friends I know about...

If your boss isn't a dick, sick days are somewhat flexible, as well. can't really use them as vacation, and looks shady if you take 1 sick day and 4 vacation days, but we're able to use them for doctor/dentist appointments, and they're useful for that once in a blue moon 'just not feeling it' personal day as well.

 

[RoJoHen]

I don't quite get the logic behind giving you all your vacation upfront, and then having it expire at the end of the year, vs accruing vacation over time, and then letting you (for example) only carry over 10 days.

In the accrual method, at least if you quit, you actually had to work for the days you have in the bank, and get paid out for. Giving you them all at once (with the stated logic that they won't have to pay you out as much on banked vacation days) doesn't make much sense to me, as it guarantees that they'll either have to pay EVERY employee that quits some amount of paid vacation time anyway. And unless you quit on 12/31, they end up having to pay you for vacation time that you wouldn't have otherwise earned in the first place! I mean, what happens if you take 2 weeks' vacation in January, and then quit? Just gave you two weeks' pay for no reason, when they only would have owed you about 3 hours of vacation time if you were doing accrual...

The idea is that you accrued it the year before. Whatever vacation I take in 2012 was earned in 2011.

As for sick days, I get zero. I get vacation time and then PTO hours (paid time off) that I can use for whatever the hell I want.

 

[CaptainStoner]

So here I am, on my only vacation taken this year, and bam! hit with a hellacious sinus infection - side of face blown up the size of a tennis ball - while at the same time, I'm trying to move to a new place. Vacation nullified. Please try again.

 

[Scout101]

The idea is that you accrued it the year before. Whatever vacation I take in 2012 was earned in 2011.

You got NO days off the first year, then? Would make more sense that you'd be given a pro-rated amount of the 10 days, or whatever. If they are earned the day before, then that means they have to pay out 10 days leave to everyone that quits, they earned them the year before, right?

As for sick days, I get zero. I get vacation time and then PTO hours (paid time off) that I can use for whatever the hell I want.

Like I said, I think it's better to separate them, if only to encourage people to stay home when sick, rather than coming in to save a vacation day.

 

[RoJoHen]

We have a probationary period of 90 days where new people don't get any vacation time. I got food poisoning my second week at this job and missed two days, and I just got docked pay for that week.

Yeah, they're taking a little risk with the newbies, but my boss is a bagillionaire and is very generous with his money. I mean, our salaries blow, but he's very good about giving people benefits.

As for separating different types of time off, I don't really think it matters. If I'm sick, I'm sick. If I'm on vacation, I'm on vacation. Either way, I'm not there, and I don't have to give any kind of notice to use any of those days, so it doesn't matter what category it falls in. My boss literally said, "If you ever wake up and don't feel like coming to work, just text me and I'll use one of your days." She couldn't care less if I'm there or not.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Other than that, though, I don't know what to do. That still leaves me with about 5 days to use up!

Travel. With a modicum of planning, you can do it on the cheap side, and you'll never regret it.

I think the 'guilty' feeling is part of why the US has a really low vacation time average
gotta get things done! gotta justify keeping my job! If I'm gone for a week or two and nobody notices why keep me around? etc

also in the US vacation is completely up to employers
most European countries have a set minimum number of paid vacation days in their labor laws or whatever . . .
http://www.apt11d.com/2010/08/how-much-vacation-time.html

And this is one reason more why working in the US sucks. I'm sure there are other kind of benefits somewhere, but from an European point of view, that's not work, it's servitude.

 

[Scout101]

As for separating different types of time off, I don't really think it matters. If I'm sick, I'm sick. If I'm on vacation, I'm on vacation. Either way, I'm not there, and I don't have to give any kind of notice to use any of those days, so it doesn't matter what category it falls in. My boss literally said, "If you ever wake up and don't feel like coming to work, just text me and I'll use one of your days." She couldn't care less if I'm there or not.

It matters if you have 10 vacation days, and had plans for 2 full weeks off, doesn't it? If you had separate sick days, you'd call out sick. If it took one of your regular vacation days away, and you knew it would ruin your vacation plans, you'd probably be at work sick, right?

Just think that's the benefit of splitting them up; you don't have the mindset that you're losing a vacation day if you call out, it's a different pool specifically for that reason.

 

[RAMA]

Howdy folks!

I have 10 vacation days to use up by the end of the year. I have never had a job with vacation days before, so I am not used to being able to do this. We have a "use them or lose them" policy here, so if I don't use all my vacation days by the end of the year, they go away, and I'll never see them again!

I already get a few 3-day weekends in the next couple months (Columbus Day, Veterans Day, etc), plus Thanksgiving and Christmas. So, in addition to those days, I need to figure out what to do with my time off.

So far, I am planning to take off...

October 18th because "Arkham City" comes out, and I want to spend my entire day playing it.

November 1st because "Uncharted 3" comes out, and I want to spend my entire day playing it.

I think I might take a few random days off in November and use them as writing days when I participate in NaNoWriMo. I am determined to win this year!

Other than that, though, I don't know what to do. That still leaves me with about 5 days to use up!

I get 4 weeks of paid vacation a year, this time I'm going north to do some photography and hiking.

 

[RAMA]

Other than that, though, I don't know what to do. That still leaves me with about 5 days to use up!

Travel. With a modicum of planning, you can do it on the cheap side, and you'll never regret it.

I think the 'guilty' feeling is part of why the US has a really low vacation time average
gotta get things done! gotta justify keeping my job! If I'm gone for a week or two and nobody notices why keep me around? etc

also in the US vacation is completely up to employers
most European countries have a set minimum number of paid vacation days in their labor laws or whatever . . .
http://www.apt11d.com/2010/08/how-much-vacation-time.html

And this is one reason more why working in the US sucks. I'm sure there are other kind of benefits somewhere, but from an European point of view, that's not work, it's servitude.

Contrary to belief Americans are he hardest workers in the world. We are more likely not to take vacations or we will work days off. I have often worked 7 days weeks.

RAMA

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Yeah, I've had bouts where I worked 7 days a week and put in 70+ hours. Fuck. I do not want to do that again.

 

[JoeZhang]

But then I look like a flake. I don't work in the kind of place where I can just be gone on a random day and no one will care. Things don't get done and people will want to know why. Ah well.

In UK Academia, this is called "being a researcher"*. When I used to work in a old university, only the administrative staff used to take actual holidays, researchers would simply go - so on paper it looked like nobody ever actually took a holiday. Some people you never saw for six months or more.

This lead to a big culture shock when I went for an job at a new University and during the interview had a conversation where I was bemused that they expected me to go to the University everyday and they were bemused that I was used to not having to.



* does not apply to the sciences!

 

[RAMA]

Yeah, I've had bouts where I worked 7 days a week and put in 70+ hours. Fuck. I do not want to do that again.

I've worked 34 days in a row, 68 out of 72 days. That's not even counting the side work I do with personal training, that's just my main job.

RAMA

 

[JoeZhang]

Contrary to belief Americans are he hardest workers in the world. We are more likely not to take vacations or we will work days off. I have often worked 7 days weeks.

RAMA

And that's why (along with any other factors) any recovery in the US will be largely jobless.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Contrary to belief Americans are he hardest workers in the world. We are more likely not to take vacations or we will work days off. I have often worked 7 days weeks.

RAMA

And that's why (along with any other factors) any recovery in the US will be largely jobless.

Yup. In fact, productivity has gone up quite a bit since the recession started. Employers are getting more work out of the same people, and those people are getting accustomed to this "new normal." Businesses just don't need as many people now. Why hire 100 people if you can work 75 people hard enough to produce the same amount?

 

[Skywalker]

Exactly. We work more than we need to because we've somehow allowed ourselves to fall into this "I'm just grateful to have a job!" mentality. There aren't as many jobs now because employees are doing more work than they used to for little or no additional compensation.

And some people are actually proud of working seven days a week, or two or three weeks straight without a day off. It's crazy.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I think the 'guilty' feeling is part of why the US has a really low vacation time average gotta get things done! gotta justify keeping my job! If I'm gone for a week or two and nobody notices why keep me around? etc

also in the US vacation is completely up to employers
most European countries have a set minimum number of paid vacation days in their labor laws or whatever...
http://www.apt11d.com/2010/08/how-much-vacation-time.html

And this is one reason more why working in the US sucks. I'm sure there are other kind of benefits somewhere, but from an European point of view, that's not work, it's servitude.

Contrary to belief Americans are he hardest workers in the world. We are more likely not to take vacations or we will work days off.

I think that's exactly what I said. (I would add "hardest workers in the Western world", but I guess that was implicit.)

 

[SmoothieX]

Even when you do take a week off here, you end up spending lots of extra time on the job before and after to smooth things over while you will be/were away.

I draw the line at emails and phone calls on vacation though. I'm incommunicado, I'll see you next week...

 

[Shaytan]

I think the 'guilty' feeling is part of why the US has a really low vacation time average
gotta get things done! gotta justify keeping my job! If I'm gone for a week or two and nobody notices why keep me around? etc

It's crazy, if you're competent, everyone will know why they keep you, especially when you're on vacation.

http://www.apt11d.com/2010/08/how-much-vacation-time.html

The graphic is false for my country : we earn 2.5 days of vacation per month. 12x2.5 = 30 per year.
We live a pleasant life and we need free time to enjoy it

 

[Sean Aaron]

Not the way it works. On January 1st, I get all of my vacation days, and I have until December 31st to use them. Whatever I don't use by December 31st goes away, and then I start with a fresh batch of vacation days for the entire following year.

That's how it should work, though the way I see it done in the States where you need to earn the time in advance is total bullshit. You shouldn't have to work a full year without leave before you can take two week's holiday.

I don't quite get the logic behind giving you all your vacation upfront, and then having it expire at the end of the year, vs accruing vacation over time, and then letting you (for example) only carry over 10 days.

Well, it's about letting your employees have a break. Yes they might leave and you'll have to pay them for holiday owed, but by the same token if they've taken their annual leave and leave before the end of the year then they owe you for that. It all balances out.

And this is one reason more why working in the US sucks. I'm sure there are other kind of benefits somewhere, but from an European point of view, that's not work, it's servitude.

Canadian holiday leave is pretty much the same: 14 days/year, which I why I didn't see any point in moving to Canada from the UK. After I moved to the UK which has the EU minimum of 20 days per year I felt like everyone in America was a bunch of suckers. 10 days a year is ridiculous.