Terra Nova 1x01&02 - Genesis Parts 1&2 (Grade/Discuss) SPOILERS

[McDuff]

The impression I got was that this is the same past, but a new future will be branched off because of their presence. I thought the whole idea of the show was that these people went to the dinosaur age. I don't think it's a completely seperate timeline, unless the producers want to write it as one at some point.

I think there's some mystery written in the show around this question of whether or not it's a new timeline.

There's 2 aspects that mititigatge against them being in the same timeline thus able to modify the future they come from by their actions in the prehistoric past. Let's not forget they can communicate with the future (aka the other "independent" timeline).

1) The probe disappeared after having been placed there to study the idea. They couldn't find it in the future.

2) They already started to colonized the prehistoric world much before what we saw on the show and it didn't seem to have impacted the future. At least, nobody talked about it.

Just the fact of having traveled to the future should have changed something already...I guess.

In the other post I also pointed out they could have traveled to another planet similar to earth (through some kind of wormhole not involving time travel), but for some reason that fact was hidden from the people traveling to such planet. This is completely speculative.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^ I missed where they could communicate with the "future". Where was this established? I need to rewatch that part.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I think there's some mystery written in the show around this question of whether or not it's a new timeline.

Maybe something was left open. I don't know, but I didn't get that from my viewing. What I understood was that they set up the basic idea that if you travel to the past, you create a new timeline from there. Like if someone goes back and kills Hitler as a child, they create a new timeline where Hitler never rose to power. Same past, but a new future is created for that person who went back.

Let's not forget they can communicate with the future (aka the other "independent" timeline).

Communication with the future they left would still be possible because the rift is open and a connection still exists.

1) The probe disappeared after having been placed there to study the idea. They couldn't find it in the future.

2) They already started to colonized the prehistoric world much before what we saw on the show and it didn't seem to have impacted the future. At least, nobody talked about it.

Just the fact of having traveled to the future should have changed something already...I guess.

The probe went to our past, but from the point of its arrival, it created a new timeline which is why they couldn't find it in the 22nd century. For example, if I stay in the present while someone else goes back in time to kill Hitler as a child, Hitler isn't suddenly going to be erased from my history books. The person who went back created a new timeline for himself where Hitler died as a child, but my past and present won't change.

 

[Maestro]

I had high hopes, but I spent a lot of the show translating Greek for seminary... I wonder what this says about the quality of the show. In any case, my DVR will be tuning in next Monday, and I'll have my NA 27 close at hand if it gets boring again.

 

[McDuff]

^ I missed where they could communicate with the "future". Where was this established? I need to rewatch that part.

While climbing the mountain. Jason and Lang has this conversation (about the Sixers) :


Jason: What did Hope Plaza [edit: aka the "independant" future] have to say about all this?

Lang: What makes you think
I asked them? Until we know who sent those people back, and why, I just don't know who in the future I can trust.

So clearly they can communicate with the future and receive answers but Lang just didn't do it in this case because he doesn't have full confidence in the people he's talking with in the future.

 

[McDuff]

I think there's some mystery written in the show around this question of whether or not it's a new timeline.

Maybe something was left open. I don't know, but I didn't get that from my viewing. What I understood was that they set up the basic idea that if you travel to the past, you create a new timeline from there.

Yes, that's exactly how I view the official explanation as written in the show. Which may turn out to be true or not. This new timeline doesn't affect what happens in the dystopian future they just left (at least so they say).

 

[Checkmate]

Maybe something was left open. I don't know, but I didn't get that from my viewing. What I understood was that they set up the basic idea that if you travel to the past, you create a new timeline from there. Like if someone goes back and kills Hitler as a child, they create a new timeline where Hitler never rose to power. Same past, but a new future is created for that person who went back.

Which doesn't make sense because people keep coming through, in the "future" of both timelines. If what you say were true, every time someone went back a new timeline would be created independent of anyone who went back earlier.

Instead, it's much more likely that the alien writing is the code for unlocking different timestreams. That's probably what happened to the commander's son; he figured out how to activate the symbols, or what they represented at least, and got zapped into another timeline.

Communication with the future they left would still be possible because the rift is open and a connection still exists.

Then the probe should have worked, at the very least transmitting the information back to the future. Communicating with the future doesn't make any sense whatsoever with what we've been told in the show, other than that they simply say they can despite all the other evidence presented.

Again, it's much more likely that this is a different timeline because of those alien symbols and what they represent. The rift just happened to connect to this one particular timeline/reality for whatever reason.

 

[EnsignRicky]

So did anybody here go into this thing NOT looking for something new to hate?


Trek BBS: Come for the science fiction, stay for the endless narcissism.

V started out great, then they had to turn it into a weekly series. And don't even get me started on that re-imagined crap.

Oh great, I guess we can just forget about Hera; Turns out Stephen Lang is Mitochondrial Eve.

Come on man, where's the positivity?

Me? I was one of the few people not tearing the show apart before it was half over; For the record, I liked it. I also like NuBSG more than enough to make light jokes referencing it. As for V, the original movies were fun whereas everything else that came after was in my opinion positively horrible. I hope that clears up the confusion.

 

[McDuff]

Maybe something was left open. I don't know, but I didn't get that from my viewing. What I understood was that they set up the basic idea that if you travel to the past, you create a new timeline from there. Like if someone goes back and kills Hitler as a child, they create a new timeline where Hitler never rose to power. Same past, but a new future is created for that person who went back.

If what you say were true, every time someone went back a new timeline would be created independent of anyone who went back earlier.

They created (or had access) to a different new timeline by going into the past, but it seems they have some kind of hard link to this new timeline (a timeline which doesn't affect the dystopian future). So people from the dystopian future are always riding the same timestream to the new timeline created in the past. That's why they don't create a new timeline everytime they go back to the past. In fact, we don't even know if they ever close the "initial" timestream. That's my interpretation of the official explanation according to the show which may turn out to be a deception or not.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I think there's some mystery written in the show around this question of whether or not it's a new timeline.

Maybe something was left open. I don't know, but I didn't get that from my viewing. What I understood was that they set up the basic idea that if you travel to the past, you create a new timeline from there.

Yes, that's exactly how I view the official explanation as written in the show. Which may turn out to be true or not. This new timeline doesn't affect what happens in the dystopian future they just left (at least so they say).

Yeah, what I initially objected to was the idea that the past they ended up in was a seperate past that didn't happen in "our" timeline. A scenario like that overcomplicates things and defeats the premise of the show which is about taking refuge in our distant past.

Maybe something was left open. I don't know, but I didn't get that from my viewing. What I understood was that they set up the basic idea that if you travel to the past, you create a new timeline from there. Like if someone goes back and kills Hitler as a child, they create a new timeline where Hitler never rose to power. Same past, but a new future is created for that person who went back.

Which doesn't make sense because people keep coming through, in the "future" of both timelines. If what you say were true, every time someone went back a new timeline would be created independent of anyone who went back earlier.

Instead, it's much more likely that the alien writing is the code for unlocking different timestreams. That's probably what happened to the commander's son; he figured out how to activate the symbols, or what they represented at least, and got zapped into another timeline.

Communication with the future they left would still be possible because the rift is open and a connection still exists.

Then the probe should have worked, at the very least transmitting the information back to the future. Communicating with the future doesn't make any sense whatsoever with what we've been told in the show, other than that they simply say they can despite all the other evidence presented.

Again, it's much more likely that this is a different timeline because of those alien symbols and what they represent. The rift just happened to connect to this one particular timeline/reality for whatever reason.

What I said still makes sense. A person going into the past would create a new timeline for themselves with a new future, but if the portal they came through was still open, they'd still have access to the future they left. Now if they closed the portal and opened it again, they'd be establishing a connection with the new timeline's future instead of the old one.

 

[stj]

Was it 1 centimeter or half a centimeter? That would mean either 850 km or 425 km, not 2400. Either way, that doesn't seem like enough for them to notice a difference in the moon's size.

Indeed it was half a centimeter, which is also indeed 425 km. (And expansion of the universe would change the brightness of the stars even less, and wouldn't change relative positions, i.e., constellations, at all.) But I was wondering how teenagers with jobs would 1.) not be at work but goofing off and 2.) why teenagers with a house wouldn't just drink at home.

Some of the worst dialogue, like the guy whose foot was more or less eaten being asked not to put his weight on it, was due to bad directing/editing, I think. The original script made sense but the director/editor didn't keep track to see if the dialogue still made sense in context.

 

[McDuff]

Maybe something was left open. I don't know, but I didn't get that from my viewing. What I understood was that they set up the basic idea that if you travel to the past, you create a new timeline from there.

Yes, that's exactly how I view the official explanation as written in the show. Which may turn out to be true or not. This new timeline doesn't affect what happens in the dystopian future they just left (at least so they say).

Yeah, what I initially objected to was the idea that the past they ended up in was a seperate past that didn't happen in "our" timeline. A scenario like that overcomplicates things and defeats the premise of the show which is about taking refuge in our distant past.

Yes, that's my understanding of it too. Like a new branch on a tree with the same roots. Exactly the same big bang, same solar system formation, same first dinosaur on earth, but different from the point of their arrival in the prehistoric past. All while everything they do in the prehistoric past doesn't affect the dystopian future which is on a different timeline from now on (a timeline where dinosaur and humans never interacted in their past). At least, so they say.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

What I understood was that they set up the basic idea that if you travel to the past, you create a new timeline from there.

They never actually said that. Either a new timeline was created, or they just went to an already existing one, where the past might be different as well.

I don't think the writers will ever answer the timeline question because it's too esoteric for a mainstream audience. Maybe one half of one percent of viewers even know there are options. They've said all they're gonna say about the subject.

Unlessssss...they really do go for the "the past is different too" option. In which case, then we'll know.

Assuming they don't get cancelled first.

 

[Tom]

..or maybe is a predestination paradox and along the way all humans and eveidence of there existance there gets wiped out, probe and all.

 

[Takeru]

Communicating with the future doesn't make any sense whatsoever with what we've been told in the show, other than that they simply say they can despite all the other evidence presented.

Communication with the future has to be possible, if it's not the whole show makes no sense. How would they know there's a planet at the other site of the portal or that it's 85 million years in the past? The portal could just as well lead to the inside of Jupiter or just into space.

Whatever, the show sucked, I turned it off after 30 minutes. The writing is awful, at the start of the show the cops searching for the third kid seemed threatening and looking at the family's reaction I assumed the kid would be fed to the dogs or something, but then we find out the dad went to prison for attacking the cops and the punishment for having a third kid is ... A FINE! That's it? Why were they even trying to hide her? I would have just gone to the authorities, paid the fine upfront and raised her without my apartment being trashed.

And why weren't they allowed to bring the third child to Terra Nova? Shouldn't the future be happy to get rid of another mouth to feed? I get that they can't allow everyone to bring their extended families, but their own child? Mom was allowed to bring two stupid teenagers, but a five year old girl is too much of a burden for the colony?

They could have dropped the child, sent dad to prison for another reason and it wouldn't change the show at all, except I wouldn't have to watch her say things like "Is that a cloud?" and feeding dinosaurs. That scene was so stupid, why would the dinosaurs even care that a child is waving a twig with a few leaves when an entire tree is right in front of them? It's like me ignoring dinner and crawling under the table to eat a single pea out of the hands of a mouse. At least I have the excuse that a mouse offering a pea is really cute, but I doubt peanut brained dinosaurs said "Oh my god, that little ape is so adorable, just look at it Martha, it wants to feed us!!!"

 

[The Green Mushroom]

I liked the show enough to think (and post) about it, but I'm still not convinced that its execution is very good. What I feel about the show is:

• If a bunch of kids can get out, many types of dinosaurs can get in.
• That fence is supposed to keep a determined dinosaur out?
• If they are concerned with dinosaurs, why do they allow the jungle to grow all the way up to the fence. If they wanted real security, clear cut everything around the camp/colony/city/whatever they call it.
• The Sixers have potential and it seems that Commander Whatshisname and the Sixer leader can at least act like adults and discuss some of their problems.
• The glyphs mystery doesn't seem to be about who drew them (the commander's son) but maybe about what they mean.
• Communication with the future is clearly possible even if a return journey isn't. Sending radio back must be significantly easier than that whirly thingy they used to send people back.
• I can live with a teenage character who resents his father for leaving the family, even if the kid simply doesn't understand the cause of said departure. Kids can be irrational.
• I can live with the hospital and the military being advanced, but the houses seem way to clean and modern for a frontier settlement like this. I would think that more techno-primitive might work in this series.
• Lastly, I think that while they say that they are in a parallel timeline at least some people believe that they might be able to change the future they left. I'd say the Sixers and the commander's son are among those who might think that way (whether right or wrong).

 

[Trekker4747]

Apparently Fox has this on at 8, followed by House at 9. That seems strange to me---House should obviously be the lead-in.

Maybe they think Terra Nova will do

Given that House has somewhat stronger themes in it it makes sense for it to be in the 9/8c slot, at the same time it'd work better as a lead-in to a new show, at the same time maybe they were thinkng that Terra Nova would bring in more viewers and lead into House to reinvegorate that show's numbers which it's needed after the last couple of seasons. (And the show would need to get "back to its roots" to do this and to make up for the loss of a major cast membe, decreased use of another cast member, the loss of Olivia Wilde and that the show went really off the rails last season.)

Anyone up for some nitpicking on the show's depiction of this time period?

Setting aside the types of dinosaurs seen in the show (neither of which I've ever heard of), there's other problems I saw with it, compared to the "real-world."

80 million years ago would be some time in the Cretaceous Period. Now at first one may assume that they had to adjust to the oxygen levels because they came from a heavily polluted time, but the Cretaceous period had higher Oxygen levels than we do now and even higher CO2 levels. I'm not sure the latter would be greatly healthy for modern humans, espically ones who're from a heavily polluted world.

We see in the show, as a result of filming locations, that there's plenty of grass around -a species of plant that didn't come around until the late Cretaceous period. Whether or not they're in the "right time" for there to be grass around is probably open to debate.

They did make some passing reference to taking supplements to get used to the food of the time, which is enough lip service to wave that away. But what about vaccinating them to the diseases and viruses of the time? I can't take a trip to Cancun without needing to consider getting a series of shots against the diseases and stuff I'll encounter there. How do vaccinate for diseases that existed 80 million years ago?

And I say again the compound's security systems are severly lacking. I would have expected the gates of the city/compound to be more like what we see in Jurassic Park with the double-gate and 10,000 volt security fences that tower 100 feet into the air. Not dinky wooden fences that brachiosaurs can dip their necks into. That's just asking for trouble.

I'd also expect something a bit more aggressive in terms of weaponry and fire-power for fending off the animals. I also wounder how the compound(s) got constructed with such dangerous animals lurking around. If a rain shower or a heat wave can prevent the local interstate from being re-surfaced how does a construction crew, stuck there, build a compound with towering carnivores lurking around? What kind of facilities do they sleep in or camp in while constructing the place?

 

[davejames]

Hey davejames, use your amazing powers of persuasion to get Star Trek back on TV!

Sure, no problem. Just gimme a sec....

In all honesty, this show might be better without the dinosaurs. Life on a new world, the colony, the Sixers, and the symbols were more interesting to me than the dinosaurs. But we'll see.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I found the idea of that world interesting and compelling enough even without the dinosaur gimmick.

Just seems like it would be a REALLY fascinating place to explore.

One reason I voted "above avg" is that I compared them to the monster mash generated by Syfy, and on those terms its far above avg of what we see on TV.

RAMA

Agreed. I've checked out some of those Syfy movies, and while Terra Nova may not measure up to the big budget movies, they were still FAR superior to those.

 

[sojourner]

I've got it! The people in Terra Nova are traveling back in time to the earth of Primeval! It all makes sense now!

 

[McDuff]

Whatever, the show sucked, I turned it off after 30 minutes. The writing is awful, at the start of the show the cops searching for the third kid seemed threatening and looking at the family's reaction I assumed the kid would be fed to the dogs or something, but then we find out the dad went to prison for attacking the cops and the punishment for having a third kid is ... A FINE! That's it? Why were they even trying to hide her? I would have just gone to the authorities, paid the fine upfront and raised her without my apartment being trashed.

Yeah the future part was very rushed. But this series is about the prehistoric past.

And why weren't they allowed to bring the third child to Terra Nova? Shouldn't the future be happy to get rid of another mouth to feed? I get that they can't allow everyone to bring their extended families, but their own child? Mom was allowed to bring two stupid teenagers, but a five year old girl is too much of a burden for the colony?

They explained it in the movie. The government don't want to reward people for breaking the law.

and feeding dinosaurs. That scene was so stupid, why would the dinosaurs even care that a child is waving a twig with a few leaves when an entire tree is right in front of them? It's like me ignoring dinner and crawling under the table to eat a single pea out of the hands of a mouse. At least I have the excuse that a mouse offering a pea is really cute, but I doubt peanut brained dinosaurs said "Oh my god, that little ape is so adorable, just look at it Martha, it wants to feed us!!!"

Yeah, that scene was strange when I watch it. I was wondering the same exact thing as you, as many people I'm sure.