Emaciated navels.
It's nothing to be proud of.
It's nothing to be proud of.
DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)
- Thread starter JD
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Which old one? There've been like twenty since the 1950s.
The more I think about it, the more story sense there is in making clean reboots of both Supergirl and Superboy. Byrne annihilated everything from Krypton except for Kal-El back in 1986 (yeah, I know that Supergirl was given a death scene in COIE prior to the Byrne reboot proper), and a number of different writers really stretched in different directions to create analogues of both characters post-Crisis - for reasons of keeping the trademarks active as much as anything else, I guess. So while pre-Crisis there was a kind of organic storytelling connection between Superman, Superboy and Supergirl the resurrected versions were basically fabricated and retooled repeatedly with various degrees of clumsiness to justify their existence and connections to Supes himself. Their back-stories are needlessly complicated to the point that whatever drama there might be to the telling is fairly attenuated.
Of course, there's always one other consideration - it's entirely possible that many of these reintroduced new52 characters will, over time, change their costumes more than once.
The Supergirl preview looks interesting, and I do like the new costume. This and Wonder Woman I'll get. Of what's been out, I wanted to see Barbara back as Batgirl for a long time, though not fanatically I hope. I didn't really feel anything for Batgirl #1 so I don't expect to go any further with it. Simone's writing just ranges from unappealing to awful for my tastes. Here it was dull and uninteresting. Mr Terrific wasn't Terrific. I'd rather have Power Girl back in her own book.
The thing about pre-crisis Krypton is that if you read enough Superboy and Superman comics you realise everybody and their dog managed to get away, even Jor-El and Lara!
I've no idea which one that is - one of the midriff-baring jobs? Besides cheerleaders and Hooters waitresses, who dresses that way any more.
My description of the pre-Crisis "Super family" was more of a "10,000 foot view" than getting into the continuity nitty-gritty:
Pre-Crisis: Superman and Supergirl are cousins from Krypton. They have the same powers because, well, they're from Krypton and Kryptonians are like that. All of them.
Superboy is just stories about Superman when he was younger. Oh, and he has a dog. Dog's from Krypton. Dog has the same powers because, you know...
Post-Crisis: Superman - okay we know this guy. He's from Krypton. Those same powers.
Superboy - he's a clone, sort of, created in a laboratory by some people somewhere from DNA that they fiddled with to make it like Kryptonian DNA (or maybe it's Supeman's DNA?). He got no momma, he got no papa...oh, apparently Luthor contributed some DNA, too. So, his powers aren't the same as Superman's - well, except that they pretty much behave the same (he can fly, lift shit, etc., and later on he gets some more powers) but who knows why they're the way they are? And he's not from Krypton and isn't exactly related to Supes - except now he calls himself Kon-El, except when he's living in Smallville with Clark's parents and calling himself Connor Kent.
Supergirl is...oy. Okay, as already noted she's an android copy of Lana Lang from a pocket universe, created by Lex Luthor - but not that Lex Luthor, a different one (gee, Luthor sure has a hand in creating a lot of Supers who will give him headaches later. He probably drinks real heavy on Father's Day). Sometimes she makes herself look like the Pre-Crisis Supergirl, for no apparent reason, and she's got some of the same powers as Superman. I think. She flies, anyway. And she's not Supe's cousin but suddenly she's Linda Danvers.
Except...now she's not an android any more, she's someone called Cir-El? Oh wait, now she's back to being Kara Zor-El. And even though she's a teenager now she's really older than Superman, and she hates him? Which one of these characters is it who wears the black costume, and who's the chick in the white belly shirt from some other planet called Argo that's just like Krypton but it's not Krypton?
My description of the pre-Crisis "Super family" was more of a "10,000 foot view" than getting into the continuity nitty-gritty:
Pre-Crisis: Superman and Supergirl are cousins from Krypton. They have the same powers because, well, they're from Krypton and Kryptonians are like that. All of them.
Superboy is just stories about Superman when he was younger. Oh, and he has a dog. Dog's from Krypton. Dog has the same powers because, you know...
Post-Crisis: Superman - okay we know this guy. He's from Krypton. Those same powers.
Superboy - he's a clone, sort of, created in a laboratory by some people somewhere from DNA that they fiddled with to make it like Kryptonian DNA (or maybe it's Supeman's DNA?). He got no momma, he got no papa...oh, apparently Luthor contributed some DNA, too. So, his powers aren't the same as Superman's - well, except that they pretty much behave the same (he can fly, lift shit, etc., and later on he gets some more powers) but who knows why they're the way they are? And he's not from Krypton and isn't exactly related to Supes - except now he calls himself Kon-El, except when he's living in Smallville with Clark's parents and calling himself Connor Kent.
Supergirl is...oy. Okay, as already noted she's an android copy of Lana Lang from a pocket universe, created by Lex Luthor - but not that Lex Luthor, a different one (gee, Luthor sure has a hand in creating a lot of Supers who will give him headaches later. He probably drinks real heavy on Father's Day). Sometimes she makes herself look like the Pre-Crisis Supergirl, for no apparent reason, and she's got some of the same powers as Superman. I think. She flies, anyway. And she's not Supe's cousin but suddenly she's Linda Danvers.
Except...now she's not an android any more, she's someone called Cir-El? Oh wait, now she's back to being Kara Zor-El. And even though she's a teenager now she's really older than Superman, and she hates him? Which one of these characters is it who wears the black costume, and who's the chick in the white belly shirt from some other planet called Argo that's just like Krypton but it's not Krypton?
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Keith Griffen interview on GA:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/keith-giffen-dcnu-green-arrow-110920.html
Legion of Superheroes #1 ( I do like the new snazzy Legion logo I forgot to mention that when we briefly discussed them a few pages ago) preview. This one takes place directly after the previous war against Saturn Queen and her new Legion and the Academy arc.
As expected Flashpoint has sealed off all time travel now between the time lines. Flashpoint kind of reminds me of of the DCU equivalent of the
Time War from Doctor Who where that event effected time travel. The Legion is cut off from calling on Superman now...
http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=44280
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/keith-giffen-dcnu-green-arrow-110920.html
Legion of Superheroes #1 ( I do like the new snazzy Legion logo I forgot to mention that when we briefly discussed them a few pages ago) preview. This one takes place directly after the previous war against Saturn Queen and her new Legion and the Academy arc.
As expected Flashpoint has sealed off all time travel now between the time lines. Flashpoint kind of reminds me of of the DCU equivalent of the
Time War from Doctor Who where that event effected time travel. The Legion is cut off from calling on Superman now...
http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=44280
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Stone_Cold_Sisko
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When is Wonder Woman #1 coming out? I tried to find release date on dccomics.com and couldn't find anything on the actual date.
Wonder Woman #1 is coming out on Wed.
Who knows?
The details of that kind of thing only matter to the extent that they're referred to in future stories. In other words, it's entirely possible for the writers to introduce Doomsday in a future story as "the guy who killed Superman a few years ago" or to flash back to Superman's death without explaining in detail how Superboy may or may not have figured in the original version of the storyline.
In fact, the "Reign of the Supermen" can be treated largely as a separate entity from Superman's death at Doomsday's hands or his resurrection. It's only if some future story requires a detailed retelling of those events - and that's highly unlikely - that they will ever have to figure out what the "new 52" version of the death story is like.
The fact that there are trade editions (I assume) of those stories out there that don't fit with the new52 versions of the characters is no more important than the fact that if I pick up a collection of Superman stories from 1960 the versions of Lex Luthor or Superman's Kryptonian origin don't track exactly with what I read in current continuity.
The details of that kind of thing only matter to the extent that they're referred to in future stories. In other words, it's entirely possible for the writers to introduce Doomsday in a future story as "the guy who killed Superman a few years ago" or to flash back to Superman's death without explaining in detail how Superboy may or may not have figured in the original version of the storyline.
In fact, the "Reign of the Supermen" can be treated largely as a separate entity from Superman's death at Doomsday's hands or his resurrection. It's only if some future story requires a detailed retelling of those events - and that's highly unlikely - that they will ever have to figure out what the "new 52" version of the death story is like.
The fact that there are trade editions (I assume) of those stories out there that don't fit with the new52 versions of the characters is no more important than the fact that if I pick up a collection of Superman stories from 1960 the versions of Lex Luthor or Superman's Kryptonian origin don't track exactly with what I read in current continuity.
Agreed. I think the new costume looks appropriately weird and alien, and I love the idea (as in the new Supes movie) that it appears to be some kind of official Kryptonian uniform.
And yeah, Supergirl is one of those characters I've always loved the idea of, but could never really get into for some reason. The only version I ever truly liked was the bratty, rebellious Supergirl from STAS-- just because she was fun and had an actual personality.
We don't know how the Superboy relaunch effects those events because DC hasn't come out and stated anything yet. I'm guessing Death of Superman didn't happen though. This is a completely relaunched, and revamped Superman from Action Comics onwards.
I'm starting to come around on the George Perez book. I'll probably be picking it up next week.
I'm starting to come around on the George Perez book. I'll probably be picking it up next week.
Supergirl, I'll give you--and that's mainly because of the three or more different versions of her that have cropped up since 1988--but Conner's origin can be pretty concise if you let it. "The cloned synthesis of Superman and Lex Luthor."
But pre-Crisis, even a one-sentence origin of Kara Zor-El has to take into account why she showed up later than Kal. "I thought it was a 'doomed planet'?" So simply by dint of existing she's gonna be more complicated.
Of course, I'm not really against complicated stories--I'm not really sure anyone is--so long as they're logically and tonally consistent.
Although that one panel in Swamp Thing gives us reason to believe Superman has died and come back, although the circumstances are otherwise completely unknown.
Then again, Flamebird was apparently an acknowledged member of a Teen Titans team that never existed or something. I'm pretty happy just enjoying (most of) the ride right now. There's been some great books the last two weeks.
I think ultimately, going into the nuDCU, don't expect ANYTHING from the past to have remained until EXPLICITLY stated.
Regardless of what they are saying, it's a reboot... just the good bits are being carried over.
Regardless of what they are saying, it's a reboot... just the good bits are being carried over.
Right, and my point, sort of, is that there's a virtue to rebooting the character to the beginning and telling that story in just such a concise fashion.
I'm not terribly fond of complicated back-stories or origins. "Survivor of a doomed planet," "chosen to police the Universe because he's without fear," "devoted his life to seeking justice after witnessing his parents murder," "bitten by a radioactive spider," "built a suit of armor to escape imprisonment," etc., etc.
The Flash has always had an annoyingly squishy origin - they've retconned the why of it at least twice because the original role of happenstance was seen to be way too great to be credible apparently even in the eyes of readers who buy into bullets bouncing off of people...especially after the exact same accident occurred to his nephew. Over the years various writers on an array of comic titles have attempted to reduce events or aspects of continuity that they saw as too convenient to be credible. John Byrne limited the amount of Kryptonite found on Earth to a single chunk that happened to collide with and attach itself to Kal-El's little starship, on the grounds that previous stories made it look like Krypton exploded into a billion projectiles all aimed squarely at us.
On other subjects, I think it's been indicated by the DC comics folks that the "Death of Superman" is preserved in the same way that "The Killing Joke" has been - but of course they can always change their minds later or, even more simply, never mention it again.
I can't be bothered by it, as I once saw every Superman story I'd read since I was five years old rendered null and void by John Byrne and I enjoyed that pretty thoroughly.
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Okay. I forgot that DiDio had stated Death Of Superman had occurred. I wonder if Lois and Clark have actually been together romantically at all in this relaunch then. Lois was kind of a critical emotional part of that story and it's aftermath. One of the intriguing aspects of this relaunch, at least for me is to see where all this "old" continuity still fits into the relaunch as we progress through it, if at all.
More changes afoot?
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/20/yet-more-dc-comics-creative-change-rumours/
More changes afoot?
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/20/yet-more-dc-comics-creative-change-rumours/
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See, that very question is why I think Didio should keep his mouth shut about what IS and ISN'T in continuity. The moment he says this is in, it opens up more questions... and all of it is kind of meaningless, unless they go BACK and tell that story again.
Who cares if the Death of Superman happened or not? How does it affect the present?
^ I kind of said I did care but yeah I see your point.
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