DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Who wants to bet next summer we see a Gen-13 #1 spun off?? I'd wager next summer is wave two of the new 52, so to speak. JSA, Captain Marvel, Question, Icon and others as a way to keep interest up in the nuDCU.

I'm sure this has already been remarked upon somewhere uptopic, but the fact that DC decided to launch their new approach to all of this at roughly the same time of year that the TV networks premiere their new seasons is interesting and the resemblances between the "new 52" and the television programming model are not coincidental. Bet you see the first wave of cancellations and announcements of new premieres within four or five months.

 

[Broccoli]

Here's to mid-season!

 

[Nerys Myk]

^ How is it confusing? Sure, for the time being, Action is taking place in the "past". Eventually, it'll shift to the "present" and stories will be concurrent with Superman.

It is really no different than before when they had multiple Superman books running different storylines.

I just don't quite understand why they have both Action Comics as a Superman storyline and Superman as a Superman storyline. Wasn't this "reboot" meant to clean things up and have it make more sense? Why run at least two Superman titles that have nothing to do with one another?

But, whatever, as long as Action Comics is "the" Superman title and will do everything I would expect from a Superman title I'll be (mostly) happy.

Just talk to me when Batman #1 comes.

Why would having two Superman titles make less sense? I dont think having characters with more than one title was part of the "mess" they wanted to "clean up".

Well with Batman you have four comics to follow!!!!!

 

[Admiral_Young]

There are two different time periods in the relaunch continuity. The past, and the present. Or more specifically Five Years Ago as it's now known. Action Comics is different as it goes even further to basically show Superman's introduction to public crime fighting. Justice League takes place Five Years Ago to show us how "the worlds greatest superheroes" came together for the first time in this new continuity. I assume that it is this way because this is the way Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns (the writers of the two books in question) wanted to tell their stories. As was mentioned both book's first arc are in the past then we will catch up with the present. It's not complicated.

 

[Hound of UIster]

IIRC, the first arc will be set in the past and then the book will shift to the present.

But it will be the "main" Superman comic with all of the tropes and expectations of Superman, right?

If so, what does the "Superman" line of comics offer that Action Comics doesn't? How do the two relate to one another?

Should I subscribe to the "Superman" comics too?

Argh. It's already all confusing!

Superman has had multiple books since the 1940s. All they really offer is Superman stories more than once a month. Sometimes they worked together in tight continuity like in the 90s, other times each book did their own thing. We'll see which approach they take when Superman #1 arrives. Though there will be some co-ordination. It won't be like reading two different characters.

It's probably multiple storylines and looser continuity. The last time DC tried to integrate the books together was during the New Krypton arc and that wasn't a success. But really Morrison works at his own pace and trying to have Perez following along probably won't end well.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Who wants to bet next summer we see a Gen-13 #1 spun off?? I'd wager next summer is wave two of the new 52, so to speak. JSA, Captain Marvel, Question, Icon and others as a way to keep interest up in the nuDCU.

I'm sure this has already been remarked upon somewhere uptopic, but the fact that DC decided to launch their new approach to all of this at roughly the same time of year that the TV networks premiere their new seasons is interesting and the resemblances between the "new 52" and the television programming model are not coincidental. Bet you see the first wave of cancellations and announcements of new premieres within four or five months.

Not me. That was CaptainCraig.

 

[Captain Craig]

... Nice to know Ray Palmer has shown up somewhere. Not having read it he sounds as out of place in a Frankenstein book as J'onn does in Stormwatch but nice to hear he's accounted for. ...

Both Palmer and Frankenstein work for SHADE, a super secret, hitech espionage organization that uses advanced science. Not so out of place, since both characters use/are the product of science.

Thanks for the explanation, that does make sense then. I may have to look for this one down the road either in TPB or a dealer $1 box(regardless of the print run).

Who wants to bet next summer we see a Gen-13 #1 spun off?? I'd wager next summer is wave two of the new 52, so to speak. JSA, Captain Marvel, Question, Icon and others as a way to keep interest up in the nuDCU.

I'm sure this has already been remarked upon somewhere uptopic, but the fact that DC decided to launch their new approach to all of this at roughly the same time of year that the TV networks premiere their new seasons is interesting and the resemblances between the "new 52" and the television programming model are not coincidental. Bet you see the first wave of cancellations and announcements of new premieres within four or five months.

For sure they will announce by end of 1Q '12 which books aren't going to make it to issue #8. But will they, as the analogy goes, usher in "mid season" replacements or just wait till the new "Pilot" season in September again?

We already know we are getting a new Anthology title, it escapes me at present, with Garbage Man, Tanga and another that essentially picks up from the Weird Worlds mini earlier this year. So a sprinkling of other #1's are coming prior to "Wave 2/Midseason" it seems but I have to think another Big Push for some characters will happen. Recapture lightning in a bottle if you will.

 

[Admiral_Young]

DC will announce cuts and new projects the same way they always do...through the interwebs and cons. I'd be surprised if we didn't learn something by the New York Comic Con which is the next big con coming up.

The anthology title is DC Universe Presents, unless you're referring to something else.

 

[Captain Craig]

Yes, DC Universe Presents, thank you Admiral!

 

[Professor Zoom]

Oh man, I saw a picture of the new Waller in Suicide Squad. I'm really a little embarrassed for DC. The fuck is wrong with these people?

Over on Bleeding Cool, the writer said,

“Amanda Waller is not defined by her size but by her attitude and she still has plenty of that.”

Which is TRUE, BUT... her size also helps her stand out in a frame of a bunch of other people. That's how we ALWAYS recognized Amanda, even in silhouette. AND, let's have a little diversity of size. Or is everyone in the nuDCU a size 0?

 

[Admiral_Young]

I just finished reading Legion Lost and yeah not going to follow the book. Will be sticking with the main LOSH book. Can't stand Pete Woods art work and the story didn't interest me at all...even with Dawny part of the Lost team.

 

[Derishton]

Which is TRUE, BUT... her size also helps her stand out in a frame of a bunch of other people. That's how we ALWAYS recognized Amanda, even in silhouette. AND, let's have a little diversity of size. Or is everyone in the nuDCU a size 0?

This.

I feel this way about JLI, as well: it's as though DC only listened long enough to hear "people still like JLI" or "Amanda Waller caught on as a character", without even trying to figure out why those things might be. Amanda Waller has been a successful creation because and not in spite of her size. Fans can recognize a realistic, well-drawn character who is (crucially) different from other characters. The JLI's appeal is largely nostalgic, but again based on well-defined characters. Just throwing some people in a room - even some of the same people - and slapping "JLI" on the cover does not mean it'll work.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Having the Wall lose weight would be like the Marvel equivalent of de-sizeing the Kingpin. The size of these characters are apart of their mythos and how other characters underestimate them based on it as well. I guess DC is trying to make some of their characters reflect their movie counter parts now...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Which is TRUE, BUT... her size also helps her stand out in a frame of a bunch of other people. That's how we ALWAYS recognized Amanda, even in silhouette. AND, let's have a little diversity of size. Or is everyone in the nuDCU a size 0?

I can't think of any female superheroes in comics who look to be a size 0 - artists like to draw them all with big busts and hips and waists that are unreasonably small.

Doubtless I'm overlooking more than a few, but the trend is still the trend and it's not toward anorexic or even slight women.

Having the Wall lose weight would be like the Marvel equivalent of de-sizeing the Penguin.

Not at all - part of the Penguin's personna is his resemblance to a fat little bird. How is Waller's character defined by "fat?"

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ I meant The Kingpin lol. Did anyone pick up Mr. Terrific? Karen Starr is there as I believe Michael's best friend and roommate. The issue was pretty decent.

 

[Myasishchev]

Which is TRUE, BUT... her size also helps her stand out in a frame of a bunch of other people. That's how we ALWAYS recognized Amanda, even in silhouette. AND, let's have a little diversity of size. Or is everyone in the nuDCU a size 0?

This.

I feel this way about JLI, as well: it's as though DC only listened long enough to hear "people still like JLI" or "Amanda Waller caught on as a character", without even trying to figure out why those things might be. Amanda Waller has been a successful creation because and not in spite of her size. Fans can recognize a realistic, well-drawn character who is (crucially) different from other characters. The JLI's appeal is largely nostalgic, but again based on well-defined characters. Just throwing some people in a room - even some of the same people - and slapping "JLI" on the cover does not mean it'll work.

Oh, yeah, that reminds me, everybody buy that DC Retroactive thing with Giffen, de Matteis, and Maguire.

And I've said it before, but why no K/D/M JLI? Maguire can't stick to a monthly schedule? Fine, make it bimonthly. Or have a rotating art team ala Williams and Amy Reeder. I might suggest Chris Batista, that guy you fired.

Do what it takes to make good product, not available product.

It just blows my mind that Scott Lobdell has three books, Giffen is only co-plotting and drawing a vanity project*, and de Matteis has no work at all.

I think they really missed what made people upset about late books. It wasn't the wait (people wait years between films and video games, and months between seasons of TV shows), but simply the unpredictability and annoyance of broken promises.

*That is nonetheless pretty decent, in a Godland sort of way. I've praised Godland before, but the thing about Godland is, as much as I enjoy it while I'm reading it, it completely clears from my system the moment I put a trade down. It feels hollow, and OMAC is sort of the same way. This keeps me far away from sampling Jack Kirby's more esoteric work. People have called these successful Kirby pastiches, so I have to assume that something like Kamandi would feel hollow too.

Having the Wall lose weight would be like the Marvel equivalent of de-sizeing the Kingpin.

This is a fantastic analogy.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

^ I meant The Kingpin lol.

I guess that's a little more plausible. "Kingpin" was initially sort of a pun on the character's shape, but none of that has a lot to do with how his character functions.

Do what it takes to make good product, not available product.

Unfortunately (I guess) no producer of mass entertainment follows that principle above all others...and DC apparently aspires to a mass media model.

Date and time, date and time...everything DC is doing makes more sense - or, at least, looks very familiar - if you pretend that they're trying to run a television network.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Which is TRUE, BUT... her size also helps her stand out in a frame of a bunch of other people. That's how we ALWAYS recognized Amanda, even in silhouette. AND, let's have a little diversity of size. Or is everyone in the nuDCU a size 0?

I can't think of any female superheroes in comics who look to be a size 0 - artists like to draw them all with big busts and hips and waists that are unreasonably small.

I was using 0 because I don't know women's sizes for shit. I've been married for 6 years and I have no idea what size my wife is. So, I plucked a number out of the air.

Nevertheless, my point is everyone is the same shape...as you said, big busts--which Amanda REALLY has now, and a tiny waist.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Batwoman was very interesting. I wonder how much of the original story Williams had plannned was retooled for the retcon. I see what Nerys Myk was wondering about Renee. Kate Sawyer is an interesting love interest for Kate. Looks like we get Bruce next issue!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Nevertheless, my point is everyone is the same shape...as you said, big busts--which Amanda REALLY has now, and a tiny waist.

I think the "Oprah" rationale offered by Guy works. Maybe she'll balloon again later...in fact, you can make book on it.